Maximising the 50/70

Bad Ass Wallace · Post by **Bad Ass Wallace** » Sat May 15, 2004 7:40 am

Available bullets for 50/70 seem to be limited to either 450gn Lyman or 700gn+ from custom mould makers. The 450 seems just a bit light for the calibre and the 700gn+ are too much to be pushed by only just 70gn of powder. Obviously rechambering to 50/90 is an option, but I would like to firstly develop and test the smaller case to it's full potential.

Because the 50/70 cases and components are relatively common today, those of us that just like punching big holes in paper or for hunting game, are very limited in controlling performance. I've heard of one shooter regularly winning places in sillhouette competition with a 50/70 using a custom bore riding bullet of about 550gns.

If you were to try to get maximum performance from the 50/70 what weight bullet would you recommend? I would be very interested to hear from any 50/70 shooters and their experiences with custom bullets.

Bearbait2 · Post by **Bearbait2** » Sat May 15, 2004 7:55 am

Though it is not a custom bullet, we recently obtained a mold for a 500gr flat point bullet from LEE. Hope to give it a try this week. Using 3f Goex jumped our velocity to over 1400fps with a 440gr bullet.
Shoot Straight

JAGG · Post by **JAGG** » Sat May 15, 2004 9:21 am

BAW ! You will firts have to go by the twist in your rifle barrel as to how heavy a bullet you can fire accuratly in your 50/70 ! JAGG

RMulhern · Post by **RMulhern** » Sat May 15, 2004 12:35 pm

If I were wanting to "maximize" the 50/70.....I'd trade it for a .50/90!

Ken Hartlein · Post by **Ken Hartlein** » Sat May 15, 2004 1:45 pm

Have you called Paul Jones or Steve Brooks or NEI, they will probably make you just about anything you want for a 50-70. What is a firts??

Rich Siegel · Post by **Rich Siegel** » Sat May 15, 2004 3:44 pm

I had a Hoch mold rebored to 50 cal with the bullet weighing 490 grains. Shoots very well out of my Shiloh 50/70 saddle rifle with a 26" barrel. My gun also likes the Lyman 535 mold and I've also shot 550 grain bullets cast and sold by the Bull Shop with good results. I still need to do much more testing at longer ranges. My work to date has been at 100 yards with groups averaging 2".

Rich

Todd Birch · Post by **Todd Birch** » Sat May 15, 2004 7:59 pm

Keep this thread going guys! I'm dickering on a .50-70 Shiloh '74 Military Rifle.

Any preference for brass out there? I have an article by Ross Seyfried in the Jan/Feb issue of "Rifle" magazine on an 1866 .50-70 Allin conversion he restocked with a Euroarms 1864 Springfield stock.
He had the joy of using an original Lyman combo tool to make the rounds.
The bullets weighed out at 453 grains and measured .520. The tool's sizer reduced them to .516. He pan lubed with SPG, of course.
He used 70 grains of FFg in MAST/BELL brass with standard Winchester primers. He never bothered with an over powder card wad, simply using one Walters .060 fiber wad.
He claimed 1 1/2" x 3" groups at 100 yards, none too shabby with the issue sights.

I've heard that the .50-70 "Little 50" is not a shoulder thumper and drops what ever it hits in it's tracks.

Todd

Bad Ass Wallace · Post by **Bad Ass Wallace** » Sat May 15, 2004 9:08 pm

I got to thinking, a 45/70 with bore riding bullets about 540-560gns seem to be 'the king' of BPCR and everything else.

Why wouldn't a 50/70 case which holds the same amount of powder as the 45 with a similar form of bullet shoot just as well. I've fired a few hundred rounds from my Pedersoli Long Range and I'm very impressed with the roundness of the groups at 100yds. When fired at 300 the groups have only 3.5" vertical dispersion but 6-7" horizontal in gentle breezes.

A bullet 100gn heavier should be better ballistically, but also with a bore riding nose, better align in the barrel like the 45/70

Bad Ass Wallace · Post by **Bad Ass Wallace** » Mon May 17, 2004 7:28 am

Comments please; do you think it will it work?
http://img50.photobucket.com/albums/v15 ... e/5070.jpg
two large lube grooves, parallel bore riding nose

Todd Birch · Post by **Todd Birch** » Mon May 17, 2004 9:43 am

Hey Bad Ass

The bullet looks good. As long as it carries a lot of lube.

I really am baffled by the constant trend to heavier and heavier bullets in all calibres. These require faster twists and essentially we have re-invented the wheel and lost the historic character of the very rifles we admire.
Why not just get a .50 calibre Barret, load it with hard cast 750 grain bullets and blackpowder?

The question I originally posted was on loading for the .50-70 Gov't, the "little .50". No one has commented.

Todd

Ken Hartlein · Post by **Ken Hartlein** » Mon May 17, 2004 2:00 pm

I did. If I were trying to "maximize" the 50-70 I would call Paul Jones and Steve Brooks and see what they recommend, that's what they do for a living!!

Todd Birch · Post by **Todd Birch** » Mon May 17, 2004 2:28 pm

I don't necessarily want to "maximize it", I just want to to shoot it and enjoy it for what it is, not make it into something it isn't - a .50 calibre mini-magnum.

Todd

Rich Siegel · Post by **Rich Siegel** » Mon May 17, 2004 5:47 pm

Todd,

I carried my 50/70 Shiloh this year but no shots at deer. To answer your question, the 50/70 with the old stand-by mold, the Lyman 515 that casts a 450 soft lead bullet does as well in my rifle as the heavier bullets and I think almost anything you shoot at, whether paper, buffalo or deer, will drop as fast if hit with that bullet as a 700 grain cannon shot. That said though, I do like the heavier Lyman bullet, 535 grains, because it has a larger flat nose. Recoil between the two in my 10 pound saddle rifle is not much different. Trajectory is nothing to brag about but that's part of the game with the 50/70.

By the way, Steve Garbe in his magazine, "Black Powder Cartridge Rifle", made a strong arguement that the 50/70 was the original "Big 50" as referred to by the buffalo hunters. Many old photographs show professional hunters using 50/70 trapdoor rifles and carbines. Sellers states that the 50/70, along with the 44/77, were the most popular buffalo calibers in the Sharps until the Army switched over to the 45/70. Like today, hunters always like the current military cartridges.

Well, off to the N-SSA Nationals in Virginia with my '63 Shiloh carbine. Back in a week.

Rich

Todd Birch · Post by **Todd Birch** » Mon May 17, 2004 5:57 pm

Thanks for the info, Rich!

Good to hear that the "Big Fifty" was the little guy on the block. One source I have gives the honour to the .50-90.

Good shooting at the NSSA Nats with your '63! Be sure to post your impressions, load, lessons learned, etc.

Todd

Ken Hartlein · Post by **Ken Hartlein** » Mon May 17, 2004 7:23 pm

I was addressing the author of this thread. The original subject of this thread is; "Maximizing the 50-70".

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