Hey all,
From the Idaho regs., part of unlawful weapons, (their term) "With any rimfire rifle, rimfire handgun, or muzzle-loading handgun, except mountain lion."
This leaves a man or woman in charge of their own intellectual capabilites to choose the weapon of choice during the general hunting season.
Were we to have a 'buff hunt it is hoped that the firearm used would be appropriate.
During the ML Rifle or Musket hunts the projectile must be at least .428 caliber, obviously to regulate the use of some sabots. The bore must be .45 caliber for deer, antelope and mtn. lion, and .50 (at the least as prior) for the big guys ie., moose. elk, sheep, mtn. goat or black bear.
As noted by a fellow Idahoan the "Traditional ML Season" must use an exposed hammer that pivots and is loaded only with loose black powder, pyrodex, or similar substitute. The patched round ball unfortunately obviates the use of minies in appropriate muskets. Calibers remain the same as ML Rifle or Musket season.
From what I've heard from the posts this is a fairly common sense set of rules.
The problem as I see it is that among the shooting sports the In Line technology has created a rifle that in a very short period of time has come to nearly dominate the "primitive shooting" aspect. Perhaps comparable to shot that utilizes a color coted coating that targets florescent ornage discs if the placement is within 2 ft. the clay.
I am sure those on the Shiloh site who do use these rifles do so in an intelligent and respectful manner.
To over regulate anything is absurd, but this has all happened so fast that both shooters and game depts. must struggle to locate an accept acceptable medium. I'm OK as I've said in using my "63 only in the general season, doesn't hunting prowress and a litle luck meam anything anymore to some or many shooters?
Gregg
Eligibility of Calibres For Bison
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gmartin
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Rich Siegel
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- Location: Maine
Buckeyeshooter and Gregg,
I moved from Ohio a year ago but when I was still there, I was speaking via e-mail to another person in Ohio on a black powder site. He claimed that Ohio was permitting BPCRs in certain Ohio hunting areas as a test, one area out west and the other down in Athens, the eastern mountain area. I moved out of Ohio and lost track of the issue. Ohio is a real strange state, they allow you to hunt anything but deer with a rifle. They also allow rifled shotguns for deer hunting. I think it's political/old time ideas that "rifles" are just too dangerous for deer hunting. They're ok for rabbits, woodchucks and fox but not deer.
Rich
I moved from Ohio a year ago but when I was still there, I was speaking via e-mail to another person in Ohio on a black powder site. He claimed that Ohio was permitting BPCRs in certain Ohio hunting areas as a test, one area out west and the other down in Athens, the eastern mountain area. I moved out of Ohio and lost track of the issue. Ohio is a real strange state, they allow you to hunt anything but deer with a rifle. They also allow rifled shotguns for deer hunting. I think it's political/old time ideas that "rifles" are just too dangerous for deer hunting. They're ok for rabbits, woodchucks and fox but not deer.
Rich
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dm3280
- Posts: 550
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:11 pm
Sounds as stupid as here in Missouri. There is a park close to St. Louis that was overrun by deer. The conservation department decided to have a drawing for muzzle loaders. A friend asked why not let bow hunters in instead of muzzle loaders. The reply was, "Do you realize how far a good archer can shoot an arrow". I guess he did not realize how far a beginner muzzle loader could shoot a bullet.
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buffalocannon
- Posts: 1584
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 2:03 pm
Dear Todd Birch
The truth, I believe, is that there are those in Canada and the states who do not want us to have ANY firearms at all. They can't come right out and take care of what they really want so they keep messing with us. The trouble with your beautiful country is that they have advanced a little bit farther along on their agenda than they have here, so far. In my opinion, it isn't really about muzzleloaders, bows-and-arrows, flintlocks, fair chase etc. etc. etc. They keep throwing up the smoke screens and pixie dust and we keep chasing our tails. If you ever saw "The Wild Bunch", I am reminded of the great line: "They? Who the Hell is they?!"
The truth, I believe, is that there are those in Canada and the states who do not want us to have ANY firearms at all. They can't come right out and take care of what they really want so they keep messing with us. The trouble with your beautiful country is that they have advanced a little bit farther along on their agenda than they have here, so far. In my opinion, it isn't really about muzzleloaders, bows-and-arrows, flintlocks, fair chase etc. etc. etc. They keep throwing up the smoke screens and pixie dust and we keep chasing our tails. If you ever saw "The Wild Bunch", I am reminded of the great line: "They? Who the Hell is they?!"
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BuckeyeShooter
- Posts: 500
- Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 5:31 pm
- Location: South Central Wyoming
I think that one of the problems here in Ohio is that you only see serious hunters that know which end of a gun is the working end hunting everything else other than deer. When deer season rolls around you get every yahoo out there thinking they're Daniel Boone. So someone decided that they would limit the destruction that these guys could do to the rest of us. They made it shotgun and muzzleloader only, and just recently pistols. Then they decided to make it legal to only put three shells in your shotgun. I've never heard anything about the BPCR deal so this is news to me. I'm at the point where I would just as soon stay out of the woods during deer season and spend my time at the silhoutte range. Don't gotta clean them and don't gotta worry about getting shot.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" -Benjamin Franklin-
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Todd Birch
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- Location: Somewhere in the Cariboo ....
....laws and such....
Hey Buffalocannon
You done said a lot there, friend!
There is no doubt in the minds of Canadian gun owners that the ultimate object of C-68, the "Gun Control" bill, is civil disarmament. A few honest politicians (more likely suffering a brain fart, actually) have so stated. All a part of our politically correct 'social re-engineering' imposed by our duly elected dictator and his cabal.
If I sound contemptuous of our government and it's policies, I am.
We take grim satisfaction knowing that every minister that has handled the justice portfolio has had their career wind up in the trash can. It's the political equivalent to being left in a room with a loaded gun.
In a nation of 30 million people, we have pissed away a reported $2 billion dollars registering the guns of non-criminals. It has done nothing to reduce crime, the alleged intention. In fact, it has exascerbated the proliferation of illegal guns.
We've hand mandatory registration of handguns in this country since 1934 and that has done nothing to reduce criminal misuse of handguns.
In an era when one out of four Canadians is likely to have cancer in some form, we put a paltry $25 million into cancer research. Our much vaunted public health system is disintegrating - but, we had $2 billion to spend on the firearms registry. The old litany of "If it saves even one life...." rings false to the thousands awaiting life saving operations.
Alan Rock, ex-Justice Mnister, has stated that his vision of Canada is a state wherein only the army and police have guns. He forgot about the criminal element in his Utopian pipe dream.
This yo-yo has stated that self-defence is not a justifiable reason for owning a firearm. He conveniently ignored the Magna Carta, Blackstone's Commentgaries on English Common Law and other such documents.
You have the 2nd ammendment to your Consitution. This document is incaluably valuable. But even before that, it is enshrined that Americans have the right to "life and the pursuit of happiness". That implies that in order to be happy, you need to be alive. That means your right to self defence is inalienable.
If you aren't a member of the NRA and supportive of their efforts, I have to question your integrity as a gun owner. Complacency and apathy put us in the position we face.
This may be off topic, but damn it, once in a while a reality check is necessary to get our heads out of the sand.
NEVER - NEVER give up the fight!
Todd
You done said a lot there, friend!
There is no doubt in the minds of Canadian gun owners that the ultimate object of C-68, the "Gun Control" bill, is civil disarmament. A few honest politicians (more likely suffering a brain fart, actually) have so stated. All a part of our politically correct 'social re-engineering' imposed by our duly elected dictator and his cabal.
If I sound contemptuous of our government and it's policies, I am.
We take grim satisfaction knowing that every minister that has handled the justice portfolio has had their career wind up in the trash can. It's the political equivalent to being left in a room with a loaded gun.
In a nation of 30 million people, we have pissed away a reported $2 billion dollars registering the guns of non-criminals. It has done nothing to reduce crime, the alleged intention. In fact, it has exascerbated the proliferation of illegal guns.
We've hand mandatory registration of handguns in this country since 1934 and that has done nothing to reduce criminal misuse of handguns.
In an era when one out of four Canadians is likely to have cancer in some form, we put a paltry $25 million into cancer research. Our much vaunted public health system is disintegrating - but, we had $2 billion to spend on the firearms registry. The old litany of "If it saves even one life...." rings false to the thousands awaiting life saving operations.
Alan Rock, ex-Justice Mnister, has stated that his vision of Canada is a state wherein only the army and police have guns. He forgot about the criminal element in his Utopian pipe dream.
This yo-yo has stated that self-defence is not a justifiable reason for owning a firearm. He conveniently ignored the Magna Carta, Blackstone's Commentgaries on English Common Law and other such documents.
You have the 2nd ammendment to your Consitution. This document is incaluably valuable. But even before that, it is enshrined that Americans have the right to "life and the pursuit of happiness". That implies that in order to be happy, you need to be alive. That means your right to self defence is inalienable.
If you aren't a member of the NRA and supportive of their efforts, I have to question your integrity as a gun owner. Complacency and apathy put us in the position we face.
This may be off topic, but damn it, once in a while a reality check is necessary to get our heads out of the sand.
NEVER - NEVER give up the fight!
Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
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gmartin
- Posts: 361
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- Location: Boise Id
Todd,
Long ago I spoke to my father about living in the wild land of my dreams up north. So much of my pre-teen and teen reading led me to believe that an expatriot life there would be heaven. He said quietly"No Gregg, you will have three parents, and one will never die." It took a very long time to truely understand his meaning. It's just so hard to believe though that all the wild lands from Ellesmere Island to James Bay could be held with such an iron fist.
Your history is so divergent from ours, even though our paths crossed violently at times. Still, not many nations such as our two were forged from a frontier experience, and a bible alone would not provide much physical protection, no offense. I don't get it.
Long ago I spoke to my father about living in the wild land of my dreams up north. So much of my pre-teen and teen reading led me to believe that an expatriot life there would be heaven. He said quietly"No Gregg, you will have three parents, and one will never die." It took a very long time to truely understand his meaning. It's just so hard to believe though that all the wild lands from Ellesmere Island to James Bay could be held with such an iron fist.
Your history is so divergent from ours, even though our paths crossed violently at times. Still, not many nations such as our two were forged from a frontier experience, and a bible alone would not provide much physical protection, no offense. I don't get it.
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loophole
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:15 pm
- Location: asheville
I built and hunted with a flintlock longrifles for many years--never took a shot at a deer, but I loved being in the woods with a rifle that could have been 200 years old and was made by hand out of real wood and steel.
I don't have a dog in the fight over inlines during the primitive weapon season, since I haven't hunted deer in a long time, but I wish someone would explain to me why anyone would take pride in owning or shooting one of the damn ugly things. I like BPCR and flintlocks for the same reason I like being in the woods or on a river trout fishing--I don't much like the mass-produced, urbanized, made in communist china, cheap plastic world we've made, and I like to get as far away from it as I can . Inline muzzle loaders are just like most of the things our modern culture has produced: disposable tools--things of no grace or art or beauty, functional, but about as exciting as a garbage disposal or a vegamatic.
It's a free country, and everyone is entitled to own whatever sort of gun he likes. Just don't tell me you're shooting a muzzle loader when you use one of these things, any more than city boys are really hunting when they shoot pen-raised quail in South Carolina or pay big money to slaughter captive game on a ranch in Texas.
I don't have a dog in the fight over inlines during the primitive weapon season, since I haven't hunted deer in a long time, but I wish someone would explain to me why anyone would take pride in owning or shooting one of the damn ugly things. I like BPCR and flintlocks for the same reason I like being in the woods or on a river trout fishing--I don't much like the mass-produced, urbanized, made in communist china, cheap plastic world we've made, and I like to get as far away from it as I can . Inline muzzle loaders are just like most of the things our modern culture has produced: disposable tools--things of no grace or art or beauty, functional, but about as exciting as a garbage disposal or a vegamatic.
It's a free country, and everyone is entitled to own whatever sort of gun he likes. Just don't tell me you're shooting a muzzle loader when you use one of these things, any more than city boys are really hunting when they shoot pen-raised quail in South Carolina or pay big money to slaughter captive game on a ranch in Texas.
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nohorse
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 5:56 pm
- Location: Vicksburg, MS
- Contact:
Todd:
"If you aren't a member of the NRA and supportive of their efforts, I have to question your integrity as a gun owner. Complacency and apathy put us in the position we face. "
Well said; Perhaps the most profound statement I have read on this board.
Thanks.
"If you aren't a member of the NRA and supportive of their efforts, I have to question your integrity as a gun owner. Complacency and apathy put us in the position we face. "
Well said; Perhaps the most profound statement I have read on this board.
Thanks.
Shiloh #1!
Guns:
45 - 70 #1 Sporter, 30 inch heavy octagon with MVA mid range soule and MVA spirit level sights
45-70 Hartford Model, 30 inch heavy octagon with Axtell Hartford Transition and MVA combination sights [the hunter!!]
Guns:
45 - 70 #1 Sporter, 30 inch heavy octagon with MVA mid range soule and MVA spirit level sights
45-70 Hartford Model, 30 inch heavy octagon with Axtell Hartford Transition and MVA combination sights [the hunter!!]
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Todd Birch
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- Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:01 pm
- Location: Somewhere in the Cariboo ....
...the collapse of the social re-engineering experiment...
Hey Nohorse
Yesterday, the Liberal government announced that the $25 transfer fee required to process the sale or trade of all firearms was being discontinued. And that the spending on our Firearms Registry is to be capped at $25 million a year!
Once they implemented mandatory registration of firearms and licencing of gun owners, what had hitherto been a right became a privilege at the whim of government. You cannot buy loaded ammo here without such a licence.
How can you tell that we have an election coming in June? If they think that is going to placate Canadian gun owners, they are really unaware of the tide of anger and resentment their program has caused. Not just amongst gun owners, but the general population who don't see much bang for the buck spent on the Registry.
You may not be aware of this, but we do not enjoy the right to property in Canada. Somehow that got overlooked in compiling the Canadian Bill of Rights and Constitution. I'm not kidding.
That means that the government can confiscate or regulate virtually any property whatsoever.
Even Communist China recognizes propert rights as essential to a healthy economy and a happy population. That was one of the mistakes of the late Soviet Union - no property rights.
Learn by our mistakes and those of Britain and Australia. Don't trust politicians that don't trust citizens with firearms.
Todd
Yesterday, the Liberal government announced that the $25 transfer fee required to process the sale or trade of all firearms was being discontinued. And that the spending on our Firearms Registry is to be capped at $25 million a year!
Once they implemented mandatory registration of firearms and licencing of gun owners, what had hitherto been a right became a privilege at the whim of government. You cannot buy loaded ammo here without such a licence.
How can you tell that we have an election coming in June? If they think that is going to placate Canadian gun owners, they are really unaware of the tide of anger and resentment their program has caused. Not just amongst gun owners, but the general population who don't see much bang for the buck spent on the Registry.
You may not be aware of this, but we do not enjoy the right to property in Canada. Somehow that got overlooked in compiling the Canadian Bill of Rights and Constitution. I'm not kidding.
That means that the government can confiscate or regulate virtually any property whatsoever.
Even Communist China recognizes propert rights as essential to a healthy economy and a happy population. That was one of the mistakes of the late Soviet Union - no property rights.
Learn by our mistakes and those of Britain and Australia. Don't trust politicians that don't trust citizens with firearms.
Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
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gmartin
- Posts: 361
- Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:55 pm
- Location: Boise Id
Loophole,
Nicely said! I agree totaly with all you said concerning the use of a firearm that is so much more than a possible killing machine. The self imposed limits we constuct for ourselves for the pursuit of fish and game are what makes our sport a"sport." And if function follows beauty all the better. The antipathy I share with many others concerning the use of in-lines stems from their before mentioned use in a "primitive season" hunt. The way these things are evolving there seems to be no end to the inventiness of thier makers to circumvent a pursuit noted for those who enjoy the chase for its own sake. Good luck with your flint lock, keep the powder dry!
Gregg
Nicely said! I agree totaly with all you said concerning the use of a firearm that is so much more than a possible killing machine. The self imposed limits we constuct for ourselves for the pursuit of fish and game are what makes our sport a"sport." And if function follows beauty all the better. The antipathy I share with many others concerning the use of in-lines stems from their before mentioned use in a "primitive season" hunt. The way these things are evolving there seems to be no end to the inventiness of thier makers to circumvent a pursuit noted for those who enjoy the chase for its own sake. Good luck with your flint lock, keep the powder dry!
Gregg
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bulldog
- Posts: 269
- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:03 am
- Location: ND
Jus happened to see this argument and I agree with Gregg bout these stupid guns they make with shotgun primers for caps inline and not original in any way. Is a wonder they banned those rocket bullets that didn't even need a primer and I'm glad they did - that 15 years ago. I Don't agree with this statement -Todd:
"If you aren't a member of the NRA and supportive of their efforts, I have to question your integrity as a gun owner. Complacency and apathy put us in the position we face. "
There a bunch of greedy sucking politicians too. Just want your money to pig out - how much does the NRA Pres make? A real citizen would donate his time.. Besides, I like the Kennedys -they care about people-and they bash them in letters getting me to join - what idiots. Hey, you want some city slicker nut in the woods with his 50 caliber machine gun. The NRA does! They ought to ban them all! It's stupid to support stupid things like that. In my mind, real sport guns are guns models before 1950 or maybe 1960 and not including machine guns and automatic weapons whch are for war only and no sport at all. That includes cannons. And not plastic guns and plastic barrels either or stupid composit disintigrating bulolets and tracers and lasers and things like that I've seen sold at gun swap meets. The old Bureu of Alchol and Tabacky had it right banning maching guns. Hey, have some common sense. A real gun is alike a Shiloh Sharps and simlar era guns. Those machine pistols and sellers like I've seen teenagers buying at gun shows ought to be run out on a plank and deep sixed!!! If you can't or won't speak up about this your no man in my mind. Aint no sense to support this kind of trash. Aint no sense to support someone who just wants to make money off guns this way, NRA or not. I said my piece.
Well said; Perhaps the most profound statement I have read on this board.
"If you aren't a member of the NRA and supportive of their efforts, I have to question your integrity as a gun owner. Complacency and apathy put us in the position we face. "
There a bunch of greedy sucking politicians too. Just want your money to pig out - how much does the NRA Pres make? A real citizen would donate his time.. Besides, I like the Kennedys -they care about people-and they bash them in letters getting me to join - what idiots. Hey, you want some city slicker nut in the woods with his 50 caliber machine gun. The NRA does! They ought to ban them all! It's stupid to support stupid things like that. In my mind, real sport guns are guns models before 1950 or maybe 1960 and not including machine guns and automatic weapons whch are for war only and no sport at all. That includes cannons. And not plastic guns and plastic barrels either or stupid composit disintigrating bulolets and tracers and lasers and things like that I've seen sold at gun swap meets. The old Bureu of Alchol and Tabacky had it right banning maching guns. Hey, have some common sense. A real gun is alike a Shiloh Sharps and simlar era guns. Those machine pistols and sellers like I've seen teenagers buying at gun shows ought to be run out on a plank and deep sixed!!! If you can't or won't speak up about this your no man in my mind. Aint no sense to support this kind of trash. Aint no sense to support someone who just wants to make money off guns this way, NRA or not. I said my piece.
Well said; Perhaps the most profound statement I have read on this board.
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Todd Birch
- Posts: 2133
- Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:01 pm
- Location: Somewhere in the Cariboo ....
Well Bulldog, it's thinking like that allows the Kennedys, Clintons and the Brady Bunch to strip your guns away, one gun at a time - just like our do-gooders are going to us.
If you think they make any distinction between your BP buffalo gun and some other guy's toy, you're in la-la land.
Nothing wrong with being there except thay you get to ride on the coat tails of those doing the fighting for you. If you're comfortable with that, fine.
You don't have to agree with the personalities and salaries of the NRA top brass but they seem to the only hope in hell between you and those that would take away your guns and scrap the 2nd Ammendment to your Constitution.
I have no problem with any citizen owning and shooting a .50 calibre Barret, Browning or any other semi or full automatic firearm. There is a process and a fee for such ownership. Someone willing to pay it and jump through the hoops isn't likely to be robbing any 7-11 or Piggly-Wiggly stores with them.
Lawful citizens with ANY hardware aren't the problem. It the dipshitz and crazies that you have to be concerned about and that is why we have laws and the police to enforce them. Criminals will always be able to get ANY gun they want, even if you can't.
Switzerland is awash in guns of all kinds - semi-auto rifles, pistols, etc. EVERY citizen has to be a reservist and qualify annually as a civic duty.
Their gun crime rate is so low there is nothing to base any statistics on. Hitler gave them a pass in WW2 as it would have eaten up the Wehrmacht invading them.
When I was a passionate IPSC shooter, the trap shooters and Bisley long range shooters looked at us with disdain. They were "sportsmen"; we were "killers in training". They blamed us for the Draconian gun laws that got shoved up our butts.
We reached them by pointing out that our puny .45s and 9mms were pop guns compared to their 3 dram traps loads they could go 200 straight on. And what about the Bisley crowd who snipe at 1000 yards with service rifles and long range target rifles? These guys aren't potentailly dangerous if they want to be?
Tell Hillary that you can hit a steel target as far away as you can see it with a 500 grain slug? Think she'll be happy for you?
Gimme a break.....
Todd
If you think they make any distinction between your BP buffalo gun and some other guy's toy, you're in la-la land.
Nothing wrong with being there except thay you get to ride on the coat tails of those doing the fighting for you. If you're comfortable with that, fine.
You don't have to agree with the personalities and salaries of the NRA top brass but they seem to the only hope in hell between you and those that would take away your guns and scrap the 2nd Ammendment to your Constitution.
I have no problem with any citizen owning and shooting a .50 calibre Barret, Browning or any other semi or full automatic firearm. There is a process and a fee for such ownership. Someone willing to pay it and jump through the hoops isn't likely to be robbing any 7-11 or Piggly-Wiggly stores with them.
Lawful citizens with ANY hardware aren't the problem. It the dipshitz and crazies that you have to be concerned about and that is why we have laws and the police to enforce them. Criminals will always be able to get ANY gun they want, even if you can't.
Switzerland is awash in guns of all kinds - semi-auto rifles, pistols, etc. EVERY citizen has to be a reservist and qualify annually as a civic duty.
Their gun crime rate is so low there is nothing to base any statistics on. Hitler gave them a pass in WW2 as it would have eaten up the Wehrmacht invading them.
When I was a passionate IPSC shooter, the trap shooters and Bisley long range shooters looked at us with disdain. They were "sportsmen"; we were "killers in training". They blamed us for the Draconian gun laws that got shoved up our butts.
We reached them by pointing out that our puny .45s and 9mms were pop guns compared to their 3 dram traps loads they could go 200 straight on. And what about the Bisley crowd who snipe at 1000 yards with service rifles and long range target rifles? These guys aren't potentailly dangerous if they want to be?
Tell Hillary that you can hit a steel target as far away as you can see it with a 500 grain slug? Think she'll be happy for you?
Gimme a break.....
Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
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A.Bruiser
- Posts: 58
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- Contact:
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Todd Birch
- Posts: 2133
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- Location: Somewhere in the Cariboo ....
....Switzerland....
The Allies bombed Switzerland? I don't think so.....
The Swiss interned the air crews of crippled bombers escaping the Luftwaffe by flying into Swiss air space after bombing the ball bearing plants at Schweinfurt and Munich.
They were greeted by Me 109s and Me 110s with the white Swiss cross on a red background causing some confusion in the minds of trigger happy gunners.
Sweden also preserved it's "neutrality" by supplying steel and coal to the Nazis as well as Oerlikon and Bofors guns to both sides. Small countries did what they had to in order to survive.
The point I was making was that the number and type of firearms has liitle to do with the propensity of the people for gun related violence. It is a cultural thing.
The countries with the highest public ownership of firearms are the most democratic and secure - especially from the excesses of their own governments. The founders of your country knew that and died for it.
Todd
The Swiss interned the air crews of crippled bombers escaping the Luftwaffe by flying into Swiss air space after bombing the ball bearing plants at Schweinfurt and Munich.
They were greeted by Me 109s and Me 110s with the white Swiss cross on a red background causing some confusion in the minds of trigger happy gunners.
Sweden also preserved it's "neutrality" by supplying steel and coal to the Nazis as well as Oerlikon and Bofors guns to both sides. Small countries did what they had to in order to survive.
The point I was making was that the number and type of firearms has liitle to do with the propensity of the people for gun related violence. It is a cultural thing.
The countries with the highest public ownership of firearms are the most democratic and secure - especially from the excesses of their own governments. The founders of your country knew that and died for it.
Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"