HUNTING Calibre Choice-Again??

Capt. Call · Post by **Capt. Call** » Tue May 18, 2004 7:10 pm

Ok....You asked and I am sure I am going to ruffle some feathers but here goes...

If I was buying a Sharps and it was going to be used strickly for hunting and I had nothing else on my mind... My choice would be the 45-70 and here is why...

It is the best choice when it comes to using Smokeless Powder! I know--I know--I have seen it here a hundred times how black powder out performs smokeless and I am sure that it does when you start streching the distance but at hunting ranges smokeless group size will be right there with black.

Now the real advantage with smokeless comes into play and by this I mean Jacketed bullets! When it comes to transfering energy to the body mass of an animal the jacketed bullet wins hands down. I have allways believed that once a bullet has past through your game animal all the energy it still carries is wasted energy.

Now if it is true that the Shiloh Sharps action is as strong as the Ruger #1 action and I am sure it is...then there is the added powder of smokeless. Loaded to the bottom end of the pressure side of the Ruger action the 45-70 with smokeless powder will have around a 200 fps advantage over the mighty 45-110! Push the pressure to the upper limit and the difference becomes night and day.

I don't consider myself a lazy person but not having to clean my rifle in the field has some advantages that are pretty clean cut also.

Ken Hartlein · Post by **Ken Hartlein** » Tue May 18, 2004 11:15 pm

Like I said, I already have a Shiloh 45-70. And before I shoot smokeless powder in any of my Shilohs I would sell them.

8iowa · Post by **8iowa** » Wed May 19, 2004 8:48 am

I only shoot black powder in my Sharps rifles. It is true that modern steels are much stronger, but the original rifles were designed for black powder pressures. These are costly custom rifles, why take a chance.

There are also safety considerations, in the event of a blown primer or ruptured case, you are not as well protected as with a modern bolt action rifle.

I always advise shooters who insist on using smokeless powder, to not exceed the maximum loads listed in Lyman's #48 manual for the 1873 Springfield. Loads of this magnitude made the 45-70 famous in the first place. Using high pressure loads going above 40,000 psi doesn't really give you much advantage in trajectory, and the animal will not know the difference.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Wed May 19, 2004 9:02 am

I cannot imagine why anyone would buy a Sharps of any sorts and then load it with smokeless and jacketed bullets. If that's what you want, buy a Ruger for much less money or a Marlin lever rifle.

But if you want to experience what it is like to hunt with a Sharps, then use blackpowder and lead bullets. And I'll match the performance of paper jacketed lead bullets on game with any copper jacketed bullet out there. Copper jackets when applied to blackpowder rifles seems to be a solution in seach of a problem that I have yet to discover.

Then again, I suppose I could load a .338 win mag with some 2fg and a paper patched lead bullet - but that would seem equally ridiculous wouldn't it?

Brent

crazeyiven · Post by **crazeyiven** » Wed May 19, 2004 10:08 am

Tradition aside, Shiloh does, on their "Choosing Your Rifle" page, indicate that their rifles are warrented for smokless use in the 45-70, 30-40K and the 38-55.

However, their next paragraph does say that they do not RECOMMEND smokless for the other ctgs, esp the large volume cases, for the usual reasons.

Tradition back in, I personally, think a copper jacketed bullet on top of a 50-90 looks weird. I like the lead bullet and the smoke of blackpowder. Variety is what makes life interesting!

krems · Post by **krems** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:29 pm

Ken,
I know you've lost a little sleep over this one but I'll give my .02$ anyway. I bought a #3 45-110 after going through the same needs for a hunting rifle. The rifle is a tack driver, and I like everything about this caliber and rifle but I overlooked an important issue in the way I like my sights set up for hunting rifles. I like the buckhorn sight set up for 100 yards, the ladder sight set for 150 yards and the rear tang sight set at 200 yards (mva short range hunting sight w/o windage). I like the tang sight to fold forward so I can grip the rifle correctly when shooting using the buckhorn or ladder sight and just look over the top of it. The 45-110 case is just a little too long for quick reloads w/ the tang sight folded forward when using the barrel sights. I also think the 45-100 / and 45-90 is too long as well. I found myself having to flip the tang sight up to reload then fold back down to shoot--too much to do at the moment of truth we've been waiting for. Soooooooooo...... I now vote for one of the shorter cases for a hunting round. My next hunting rifle will be set up w/ the same sight system but will be chambered in the 50-70. (on order already) I really needed an excuse to jusify buying a new Shiloh. Good luck w/ both of your new rifles.

Krems

Ken Hartlein · Post by **Ken Hartlein** » Sat May 22, 2004 7:52 am

That's a very valid point Krems and one I will ponder it seriously. Thanks again to all that have offered an opinion.