Parodox rifling

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mdeland
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Parodox rifling

Post by mdeland »

I would sure like to give this method of rifling a try in a BPCR. The bore profile is smooth bore until the last few inches which forms into a choked lead then into the actual rifling in the last inch or two at the muzzle. I'm thinking if this last bit were gain twist it would be an interesting subject of exploration.
I would think the whole fouling control issues would need manipulation.
I have got to get going on some of this stuff before I get to old to try it! :lol:
mdeland
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Re: Parodox rifling

Post by mdeland »

I'd venture a guess that a PP bullet might respond most favorably to this if any bullet would. Colt revolvers early on used gain twist in their percussion guns. These were initially designed for use with round ball but during the Civil War the paper cartridge bullets became standard issue which were at least adequately accurate and much faster to reload.
I was thinking that if one is going to try a gain twist then the rifled portion would need to be at least long enough to make a gain feasible as in the Colt revolver barrel length. Any gradual gain would certainly be easier on initial rotation than would straight twist.
CptCurl
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Re: Parodox rifling

Post by CptCurl »

Here's a look at it:

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But no, they didn't use paper patched bullets. Here's the 2 ounce bullet made for the Paradox:

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And that's not a lube groove on the bullet. It's for displacement of metal when the bullet conforms to the rifled choke.

Image

Curl
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Roscoe Stephenson
a/k/a Curly
mdeland
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Re: Parodox rifling

Post by mdeland »

Thanks for the picture Curl! First one I've actually seen, looks like they used ratchet rifling. Is that what is called a Cape Rifle?
bruce m
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Re: Parodox rifling

Post by bruce m »

mike paradox rifling was never used as an attempt at improved accuracy.
it was an attempt to soot both shot and a single bullet from the same barrel, allowing one gun the be versatile enough to take birds and small game, up to such things as lions, with enough reliability to survive the encounter.
with shot, the rifling style acted to some degree as a choke.
with a bullet they were not meant to be used much further than shotgun range.
a person armed with such a firearm could live off the land in dangerous game country.
I think westley Richards used a special bullet and called ther gun "the explora"
I knew a guy who had a browning auto shotgun with such a barrel, and he hunted a lot in s.e. asia.
I will try to find a link to him on youtube killing some escaped lions that had killed their keeper.
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus
bruce m
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Re: Parodox rifling

Post by bruce m »

I can't get the link right, but if you thype in
The wingfield lions the truth - youtube, you can find it there.
bruce.
if anyone can find it and put up the correct link it would help.
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus
martinibelgian
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Re: Parodox rifling

Post by martinibelgian »

The type of rifling to try for BPTR is Lancaster oval bore - it did have a reputation of being not all that fouling-sensitive, not having any corners or edges in the barrel.
mdeland
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Re: Parodox rifling

Post by mdeland »

Hamilton Bowen made some custom pistols with this rifling form and even know the barrels would shoot shot they also were reported to be very accurate with lead bullets. He'd start with a Ruger 44 mag barrel and back bore it to .451 up to within an inch of the muzzle , cut a shallow taper into the .429 bore of the 44 mag. The cylinder was bored out to except the 45 Colt round . The regular diameter Colt bullet was swaged down by a long taper forcing cone into the rifling of the standard 44 mag muzzle.
I though it an interesting concept I would like to explore.
mdeland
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Re: Parodox rifling

Post by mdeland »

From what I have read of Paradox rifling apparently it was most used with ratchet style lands which have never been particularly conducive to top accuracy with lead bullets. It often happens with cut rifling unintentionally if the hook is not profiled correctly and is to be avoided if possible.
The Bowen revolvers that were reported accurate used standard Ruger rifling at the muzzle.
martinibelgian
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Re: Parodox rifling

Post by martinibelgian »

Hmmm.... tell that to the guys shooting shilen ratchet-rifled .22's :lol:
SharpsBig50
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Re: Parodox rifling

Post by SharpsBig50 »

Classic explorers rifle, thanks for posting. Is it noticeable when that big bullet finally grabs the rifling? I remember Ross Seyfried writing about paradoxes and always thought it was a neat idea.
mdeland
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Re: Parodox rifling

Post by mdeland »

Ratchet style rifling had some following with muzzle loading patch ball use but is not very popular with bullet shooters as far as I have read. I have a good book on 22 RF match ammo and top flight match rifles and don't remember ratchet rifling ever being mentioned in it.
There is a good article in the book by Dan Lilja discussing his three groove rifling being just as accurate as his standard 6 groove. He also opines on why .22 RF barrels start to loose match accuracy at about 30K rounds. Good book!
CptCurl
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Re: Parodox rifling

Post by CptCurl »

bruce m wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:41 am . . .

it was an attempt to soot both shot and a single bullet from the same barrel, allowing one gun the be versatile enough to take birds and small game, up to such things as lions, with enough reliability to survive the encounter.
with shot, the rifling style acted to some degree as a choke.
with a bullet they were not meant to be used much further than shotgun range.
. . .

bruce.



That's true in the lighter bores - 12 and below. The larger bores, 10 and 8, were made as dangerous game rifles pure and simple. Here's the 1895 catalog entry for the 10b Paradox:

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And a close-up of the text:

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My 10b weighs 13 lbs. 1 oz. Here's the H&H record:

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Here's a comment published in the September 1906 edition of The Field in which H&H states it's concept for the 10b Paradox (as re-printed in Paradox Volume 1 (2010), David Baker and Roger Lake, p184.:

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It's no upland bird gun. It's a handful of power. Here's a video of the first two shots I ever fired from this weapon: https://youtu.be/saNWxgyOW6c

Curl
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Roscoe Stephenson
a/k/a Curly
BFD
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Re: Parodox rifling

Post by BFD »

mdeland wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:02 am Ratchet style rifling had some following with muzzle loading patch ball use but is not very popular with bullet shooters as far as I have read.
I don't know where you get this stuff, but it sure is at odds with the real world.
beltfed
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Re: Parodox rifling

Post by beltfed »

Recent/Currently available shotguns have screw in chokes.
One available is a Rifled Choke Tube.
I have such a rifled choke tube for my 12 ga Remington pump and autoloading shotguns.
These were popular in "shotgun" counties for deer hunting. Better accuracy than
the straight smoothbore barrels.
There you have current, available "Paradox" guns.
they do work.

More recently, most shotguns are available with fully rifled barrels
beltfed/arnie
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