Noob -- part 2 -- Seeking input once again.

[abenson]

Hello all. I discovered this site and joined this board about a year ago. Made a few posts, got some good input and considered ordering a Shiloh Sharps. Had the money in my pocket. Well here's what happend:
I went to a gunshow. A dealer had a delicious Weatherby MkV for a good (but still expensive) price. I've always had a weakness for Weatherbys. So I bought it and there went all the money I'd saved for my Sharps; I have no willpower.

Anyway, I'm back in a position to order a Shiloh in the relatively near future so I'll give you experienced hands some background and then just wait for the data to flow in

My Shiloh will be used primarily for hunting and informal target shooting (lots of it). I don't see any formal long range shooting in my future, but hey you never know.

First, caliber. I know everyone suggests that your "first" Sharps be in .45-70, presupposing you're going to get more than one. I'd love that, but don't know that I'll be able to manage that, so I want my "first" Sharps to be in a caliber I'm really interested in. Those are .45-110 and .50-90, so of those which would you recommend? I do reload, but I'm fairly new to it. Right now of course I'm only reloading smokeless. I've heard the 50-90 can be tough to load for. True?

What do you think of the tang/vernier sights? Are they necessary for hunting and informal target work? I don't even know if I could get used to using one.

I'm looking at either a Sporter #1 or #3; which style is more "historical"? I'm guessing the Sporter#3 is but I don't know.

There's more questions but I'll wait for a few responses first! Sorry for the length of this...

[deerhuntsheatmeup]

abenson, I would consider alot of options when ordering a rifle for hunting and alot of target shooting. In my experience, shooting at large game, recoil is almost non-existent. Due to the excitement and shooting sitting or standing. On the other hand, "lots of target shooting" as you have stated will be a different matter with either calibre you have listed. If I was gonna order a 45-110 or 50-90, it would be at least the weight of a Quigley model. Nothing lighter period, and I would probably go even heavier than that and get a 14-15 pound bull barrel.

I target shoot quite a bit with a 45-70 and it is OK but after 50 rounds or so, I get sore. I do not own a 110 or a big 50, BUT, iffen I did it would be heavy, and have a shogun buttplate. Period.

Nothing wrong with a heavy rifle as long as you don't intend to walk all over the western slopes with it. That would be quite taxing.

Good Luck with whatever you decide. Later, David Barfield

[JAGG]

A ! Just what is it that you are going to be Hunting and shooting with these big powder eaters ! Elk ,Moose ,Large Bears or Buffalo ? The recoil is going to do damage to you on the target range if you shoot a hunting weight rifle in one of these cals. for to long ! Like 10lbs or lighter weight rifles in these cals. ! If you are going to get one of these cals in a hunting weight rifle then i would go for the 50/90cal. JAGG

[KHR]

A, Listen to Jagg!
I have an original sporter in 45/110, it weights about 11 lbs. It kicks the tar out of me! I'm rebarreling it in 40/70ss. Sporter #1s and #3s are both historical, but many more #3s were made. The cool historical calibers that I like are 40/70ss, 45/70, 45/90, and 45/110. For all around shooting 45/90 could do both hunting, sillywet, and longrange, somewhat the same for 45/70 (but hot 3f loads would have to be developed for longrange). the rifle needs to be close to 12 lbs for recoil. Probably 45/70 or 40/70ss is the way I would go.
Go ahead and get that deposit down!!!
good luck,
Keith

[Ken Hartlein]

If you're looking for historical the 50-70 was the 2nd most sold Sharps until the 45-70 came along. The 44-77 was the 1st until the 45-70. I'm going through the same thing you are and I have decided to get both a 45-90 and a 50-70, now all I have to do is decide which to get first. Either calibre would do you very well for hunting.

[Brent]

My .45-100 weights in at 10.6# normally. It gets modified for target shooting and whatnot. I add a mercury recoil reducer in the butt that I can take out if I want. The crecent butt is padded with 3/4" of leather, which mostly broadens the impact zone on my shoulder.

Brent

[crazeyiven]

Abenson-

Welcome back to the site.

I have shot 45-70's for years. It's a great caliber. But. I've always had a thing for a big 50. I ordered and finally received my 1874 HARTFORD MODEL a few weeks ago. It is a 50-90 with a 32" barrel. It weighs in at 13 pounds. I love it.

I have not found the 50-90 any more difficult to load than the 45-70. Some issues you might find is that the 45 cal components are a bit easier to find, especially locally. However, if you do not mind ordering, you can find all the stuff you'll need (brass, dies, shell holders, compression dies, etc.) from here at Shiloh, MidwayUSA and Buffalo Arms.

Another of your questions was about sights. I think that will depend on what ranges you are planning to shoot. If you're going to be 200 yards or less your barrel sights will probably be fine. I believe that generally the barrel sights are preferred for hunting assuming that most game will be taken at less than 200 yards.

If you do not have it yet, a really good book to read for fun and information is "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West," By Mike Venturino. He addresses many of the issues you have presented. There is also a book "SPG Lubricants BP Cartridge Reloading Primer" by Mike Venturino and Steve Garbe. Both are available here on the Shiloh site. Both books get into each of the cartridges in which you are interested.

[Tasmanian Rebel]

Abenson, when I read your post, I get the feeling you are not ruling out competitive target shooting with this gun. Both calibers are fine for hunting in just about any weight gun Shiloh makes I think. If you shoot this gun competitively, you're going to be shooting long strings of shots. Shiloh has a good section in their brochure and on this website about picking a new gun/caliber. I don't think either of the calibers you're interested in would be the best choice for target shooting. If you are dead set on one of these calibers, I would choose the 45-110. .45 caliber rifles are constantly in the winners circle but I can't ever recall seeing a 50 cal there. I'm sure it's happened and some readers here undoubtedly know of an instance where a .50 cal has won an event but one just doesn't see it often. .45-110's are capable of outstanding accuracy but can be a little finicy on what there fed. I have a Shiloh bull barrel 45-110 along with 2 Shiloh 45-70's and I can't really notice any difference in recoil shooting these rifles when I'm prone. I have a friend with a 50-90 and the recoil is noticibly stiffer-at least to me. I know it's plain vanilla but you would be better served with a 45-70 or 40-65. Good luck!

[abenson]

Thanks for all the replies so far guys. I'm not too concerned about recoil to be honest. I shoot 40-50 rounds from the bench with my .338 Winchester without getting uncomfortable, so unless the recoil from the big Sharps calibers is significantly more than my .338 I'm not worried about it.

Tasman, I agree with you that a .45-70 is probably a more practical choice, but I also agree with you that it's vanilla. And I hate vanilla. That's why I'm willing to spend $2000+ on a rifle So for me it'll be .45-110 or .50-90. I definitely have not ruled out long range competitive shooting, but since I live in the gun wasteland of MA it won't be in the immediate future. Heck I don't even know if there is 1000 yds of empty space anywhere in the state...

Mostly my target shooting will be 100-200 yards, so I may skip the fancy sights for now.

Jagg, most of my hunting will be whitetails and black bears in PA and ME...plus moose in Maine if I ever draw... There are some western trips for elk in the future though plus caribou in Canada. Buffalo is also under consideration

Crazeyiven, Venturino's book is definitely on my list of things to buy. I will also take a look at the reloading primer you mention.

Thanks again...more input welcome of course!

[Ken Hartlein]

From your last post, sounds like a 50-70 is right down your alley!! Good luck on your choice, you will like it whatever you get. I just emailed a guy about a -110 but he had already sold it. dang!

[abenson]

Ken, too bad about that -110; he who hesitates is lost huh?

I hadn't even considered the .50-70, don't seem to hear too much about it. I do think I'm leaning toward the .45-110, but we'll see how it goes. I hope to put my deposit down in June.

I'm thinking I may order Mike Venturino's book today so I can get some more background info. Plus it'll give me something to read while I commence the 14 MONTH wait.

Gotta start learning about blackpowder reloading too. Frankly it sounds complicated...

[Ken Hartlein]

Abenson, no, blackpowder reloading isn't really complicated, it's just a little more challenging to find what your rifle wants. Actually it's kinda fun to fiddle with the loads to see what works best. One big advantage all of us on this forum have is that we have unsurpassed support from the "Shiloh Bunch", and from people on this forum who have actually done it and know how. And like I've said before, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. ENJOY!!

[abenson]

[quote="Ken Hartlein"]Abenson, no, blackpowder reloading isn't really complicated, it's just a little more challenging to find what your rifle wants. [/quote]

Hmmm, well perhaps it isn't complicated, but it seems as though it might be expensive. One of the reasons I started reloading smokeless is because of my fondness for Weatherby rifles and calibers...they can be expensive to feed. Figure $40-$50 per box of 20. Was pricing some 45-110 brass online and the best prices I could find were running around $38 for 20 empty cases. Ouch.

What kind of life expectancy can I expect to get out of a case? I know with most of the magnum cartidges I load for I can get 3-4 firings. I would expect more with the lower pressures of black powder, but with black powder being corrosive does that shorten the case life?

[Ken Hartlein]

Not if you clean it promptly and properly. I have shoot my 45-70 starline brass for a while, probably shot it 10 times, you can't even tell them from new. I have heard of guys shooting their brass 30 or 40 times.

[Tasmanian Rebel]

Abenson, one can shoot and reload the more sedate BP cartridges like 45-70's an incredible number of times. The poster here who posts as rdnck recently retired some 45-70 cases he's had since about 1985. He tests BP for a living so he shoots these things a ton and I think has shot BP for several decades nearly on a daily basis weather permitting. He told me he estimated he had fired and reloaded these cases about 500 times. If properly cared for these thing can last most shooters for a lifetime. I think the biggest problem like you mentioned is corrosion. After shooting you need to deprime the cases ASAP and put them in the solution of choice prior to drying and tumbling them. If I don't have access to my usual solution of vinegar and water I put the cases in an airtight ziplock bag until I can get home to properly clean them.