Shiloh Rifle Forums

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:13 am**

Arnie
I see the BACO 455545E DD is 1.46. Does that work well for 1000 yds or should I have them cut .020 off the length?

labop

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:15 am**

77 sharps wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:48 am BPCR shooter

Isn’t that a.44 caliber bullet. Do you mean JIM453545E?

yes, its just the first one I came across to show what a DDPP bullet looks like, not to use that bullet. sorry for any confusion

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:04 am**

While I agree with staying short and I believe PPBs are inherently less stable than GGBs. I use 1.46" in 18 twists to 1000 just fine. A slightly sharper nose helps.

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:20 pm**

Brent.......... what makes you believe that PP bullets are less stable than GG bullets?

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:21 pm**

Brent.......... what makes you believe that PP bullets are less stable than GG bullets?

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:28 pm**

Comparing notes with grease groove shooters. They often get stability with bullet lengths that I give me bad tipping or worse. But these are not controlled experiments that hold nose shape and other details constant, so make of it what you will.

I will say that the grooves on those ugly naked bullets may act like fletching on an arrow to help keep things straight. Just speculation on my part since I've never ridden along on a grease groove bullet and even do my best to avoid shooting them if at all possible.

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:27 pm**

Distant Thunder wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:02 am I would like to add to this that it is exceedingly important to keep the bullet length, whether GG or PP, a bit under what various methods of calculating such things will tell is the maximum length that a given twist will stabilize. I know that .020" doesn't sound like it would make much of a difference but believe when I say it will. You can push the upper edge of length if you want but you will pay for it when the winds are active.

That is my one fault with some of the BACO designs, they push the limits of what a .45 caliber 18-twist will stabilize well. If your shoot an 18-twist .45 I would strongly advise you have you mold made at 1.440", you will be rewarded with a bullet that holds up much better in quartering heads winds.

And yes pushing a long bullet faster will help but not much and less as the range is extended.

I know we all want to shoot a .45 caliber bullet that weighs 550 grains and is 1.500" long and I know the ODGs shot little tiny groups at 1000 yards with their 1 in 20 rifles but it isn't going to happen every day in real life. One group tells you very little about what works day in and day out.

Make sure you get a bullet that fits YOUR rifle in all dimensions including the length.

.
I couldn't agree more. My long range "Money" bullet is 1.455" and is shot out of a 16 twist barrel, not 18.
Dennis

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:39 pm**

Well I don't know what twist my barrel is on my Shiloh, I bought it used and it's got a 34" heavy barrel, does Shiloh offer different twist or they all the same?
Chris

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:49 pm**

mongo40 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:39 pm Well I don't know what twist my barrel is on my Shiloh, I bought it used and it's got a 34" heavy barrel, does Shiloh offer different twist or they all the same?
Chris

If it is a B serial number gun, they can tell you rate of twist usually if you call Shiloh.

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:51 pm**

Twist in your rifle is most likely 1-18.
Both the .446525 at 1.45 and the .446535 at 1.47 shoot well to 1000 in the 45-70 and the 45-90, altho the 16 twist 90 does better with the 535 at ranges beyond 600, than the 525.

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:29 pm**

A paper patch bullet that is 1.460" long will shoot out of an 18-twist .45, but I believe that at 1.440" long it would be just a bit more stable when the winds get difficult. That is what I found when I shorten my elliptical bullet from 1.460" to 1.440" and I need every advantage I can get against the wind.

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:53 pm**

brent gives good advice re measuring paper thickness by wrapping a bolt or something.
always worth doing it both wet and dry, because thickness of paper can vary, and it is one way to chase a good fit.
just measuring paper is less meaningful.
distant thunder's advice re bullet length is also worth heeding.
my own rule for 1:18 twist 45 cal is max 1.450 long.
of course the length that matters is what leaves the muzzle.
softer alloys will shorten a bullet in the barrel.
it is hard to accurately measure inside diameter of a fired case without the correct equipment.
a vernier will not do it due to the flat edges on the jaws.
the best way is to find something that just slides in and measure the o.d. of that.
if you want to minimize nose slump by using harder alloys, undersize bullets will not be your friends.
bruce.

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:21 pm**

Distant Thunder wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:29 pm A paper patch bullet that is 1.460" long will shoot out of an 18-twist .45, but I believe that at 1.440" long it would be just a bit more stable when the winds get difficult. That is what I found when I shorten my elliptical bullet from 1.460" to 1.440" and I need every advantage I can get against the wind.

You could be right, but your bullets are blunter which gives you a bit more overturning tendencies as the wind resistance stacks up on the nose a bit more on your bullets than mine. At least that's my story. Looks like I'll be shooting 1.46" & 18" for the All Comers and 1.51" & 16" for the Cup, now that I've found some loaded cartridges that were in hiding.

I don't suppose we have any wind forecasts to start speculating about. Oh maybe. . . Here we go, Thursday, 10ish mph from the North. Friday, 10ish from the South. Saturday 15ish from the South. Pretty orthogonal.

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:32 pm**

BACO is out of stock on everything that was recommended, signed up to be notified but who knows when that will be.

Chris

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:57 pm**

mongo40,

Call them and order what you want, I'm pretty sure they will make it for you in a reasonable amount of time.

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