38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

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powderburnt
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:13 pm
Location: Central Arkansas

38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

Post by powderburnt »

Here is Dan's Chamber drawing
20200926_083935.jpg
.
Friday was a perfect day for testing and I had excellent results with the 1 1/2 Swiss, the 3F, not so much but will revisit that load once more. Here is the dope on the best load. All shots were fired prone, off cross sticks at 300 meters in near calm conditions and mostly overcast skies.
RP cases fire formed with 8 grains unique topped off with cream of wheat and tissue paper.
All cases were on second firing
Trimmed to 2.25" (trimmed to 2.245" after first loaded firing)
Fed LR primers
65gr 1 1/2 Swiss,lot #11/07/2016, Drop Tubed (Case filled to .070 from mouth of case)
.050" ldpe wad, .382" dia.
.050" compression
Bullet: DDPP 372gr @ 16-1, 55Y paper wet wrapped
Light taper crimp with unknown cut off die
20200926_083935.jpg
The nose of the bullet is not as elliptical as the drawing.
The only change I would make would be to shorten the bullet .050" and add it to the base length to obtain .120" seating depth as opposed to the .070"

HG
powderburnt
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Re: 38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

Post by powderburnt »

20200926_083935.jpg
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powderburnt
Posts: 233
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Re: 38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

Post by powderburnt »

20200927_105042.jpg
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powderburnt
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Re: 38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

Post by powderburnt »

Velocity for ten shot average was 1295 with sd of 8
20200925_114402 (1).jpg
One shot was jerked off to 10 o'clock over initial excitement of potential incredible 5 shot group that no one would believe anyway.

HG
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ian45662
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Re: 38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

Post by ian45662 »

This is great. Thanks. Does anyone have any experience with the Winchester or hornady 30-40 cases ? Will they be as long as the Remington ?
45bpcr
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Re: 38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

Post by 45bpcr »

Seems like the 38 bug has bitten you Ian.

From what I understand, Winchester and Remington no longer sell, or only have seasonal runs on 30-40 brass.

I bought Hornady and Privi 30-40 brass to form into 38-50.
The Hornady brass didn't weigh all that well.
Weights varied over 12 grains for a 200 case lot.
It was also much softer.
The Privi brass was much more consistent in weight but worked a bit harder.
I didn't loose any Privi cases while forming.

RCBS no longer makes 38-50 die sets.
Leastways, that's what they told me when I called them with a part number.
I bought a CH4D sizer die and use 38-55 expander and seating dies.

The 38-50 I own is a roller.
Steve Rhoads built the rifle for the previous owner.
We talked about it a bit and somewhere I have a chamber drawing.
I've never really shot that rifle much so I can't supply load data, chronograph results or photos of groups.

To many rifles and not enough time.

Like the 38-55 it wears a 1-12 twist Green Mountain barrel although it's a full octagon.
Give a call sometime if you have questions.

It's a beautiful afternoon here on the Atlantic

Craig
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DSC_2747-3.jpg
DSC_2726r-3.jpg
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SSShooter
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Location: Jersey Shore

Re: 38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

Post by SSShooter »

Found no substantive difference between Win & R-P 30-40 brass. I sort both by weight, just in case............... Both need to be trimmed some amount after expanding to 38-50.

Checking a couple of the "usual suspects", I see several makers 30-40 cases in stock. As a side note, the last couple of bags of Win that I got and trimmed to fit my 38-40 (yes 38-40 Rem-Hepburn) all stuck in the chamber and had to be knocked out with a rod after firing. The rims are uniformly about 0.001" too large and have to sand them all with a piece of emery-cloth. Win case quality seems to have fallen off significantly over the last couple of years.
Glenn
ian45662
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Re: 38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

Post by ian45662 »

Craig I don’t know if I would say that I have been completely bitten but it is just something I am interested in. I do love my 45/70s but this maybe a way to save a little bit of powder and lead from time to time and still have a rifle that is competitive.
Glenn thanks for that tidbit. BACO has 38/50 brass. I wonder if I would just be better off getting it from them?
cw50-70
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Re: 38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

Post by cw50-70 »

Just to note one anomaly I discovered between 5 to 10 year old Winchester and Remington brass I had and was making 40-60 from it, the chamber was set for minimum rim clearance with the Winchester brass and the block would not close on the Remington brass which had a thicker rim.
beltfed
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Location: Central Wi

Re: 38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

Post by beltfed »

So far, I am very pleased with my Brg BPCR rebarrelled to DT chamber 38-50, Douglas 10 twist.
I seeing very good results shooting two bullets I designed:
BACO cut DDEPP: 345gr 1.4" long JIM#371345E and 360gr 1.46" JIM#371360E. The 345 was designed for a friend's 12 twist Ron Smith
and the 360 gr for my 10 twist.
Latest load is either of these bullets with.
55W paper
Fed 150 LP seated thru "target paper"
66 gr Swiss 3F
0.060 ldpe wad seated into case about 0.100- 0.112"
No velocity figures yet. Need to get out the Oehler 33....
Shot the ISSA Regional Schuetzen matches ( postal this year) and Won the BPCR match despite very shifty winds, the 360 gr bullet did well.
Experience at my club Gong match: 360 gr DDEPP bullet, Zeroed the rifle at 600yds on a gong. Then took a shot
at our 600yds "bonus target" , a bowling pin hung on a shepherd's hook : One shot One Kill-centerpunch thru mid body
Jim K then took a shot at the pin with the rifle : One shot One Kill , center body also.
Attached is a PIC of a 200yds group with the 345 gr bullet: called the second shot slightly out at 2:00.
IMG_1886.JPG
Powderburnt, I suggest you look at the JIM# 371345/1.4" bullet for your 12 twist rifle.
It is shooting very well in my friend's 12 twist as well as in my 10 twist rifle.
beltfed/arnie
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ian45662
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Re: 38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

Post by ian45662 »

Will that shorter bullet fit well in the greenmountain 12 twist barrel with the 55w paper?
SSShooter
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Re: 38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

Post by SSShooter »

ian45662 wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:26 am Will that shorter bullet fit well in the greenmountain 12 twist barrel with the 55w paper?
Am sure it will. Early indications are it shoots well in my Shilen 12" twist barrel. I'm going to try the 360gr bullet as the shorter 345gr bullet just barely engages the rifling in my rather long-leade chamber with only 0.120" of bullet into the case. I would like that extra 0.06" into the rifling.
Glenn
ian45662
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Re: 38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

Post by ian45662 »

Baco has the 371345 in stock. Maybe I should just go ahead and grab it.
powderburnt
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Re: 38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

Post by powderburnt »

Hey Arnie, I bumped up the bore riding section of my bullet .0035" more than your design (making it .3635") to fit the GM barrel a little tighter. The GM barrel has a .368"/.375" bore/groove diameter. It has no problems chambering and seats in a fired case snug. It also appears stable out to 600 with no tipping. The base is .25" tall and only allows the bullet to be seated .070" into the case when it is seated out to the where the tapered portion touches the rifling. I probably wouldn't have to crimp if it were a little longer but that would take up powder space and it doesn't seem to be a problem, it's just a little slow when handling during the taper crimp process.

HG
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desert deuce
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Re: 38-50 Hepburn per Dan T

Post by desert deuce »

Was it Dan T that referred to his 38-50 as a Gnat Mauler?
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
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