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Has Dan’s White Lightning formula ever been determined

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:28 am
by John Boy
… or is it just as Dan said once … you can eat it and the ingredients can be bought in the food stores

Re: Has Dan’s White Lightning formula ever been determined

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:11 pm
by Kurt
John,

He left a lot of hints, He also said woman can put it on their lips and you can use it for keeping your fingers from cracking, plus the ingredients are a costly and a few others in several posts. :D
Well this leaves out Soy wax because it's cheap. So that puts the Ozokerite wax in line because it's used for cosmetics and it's expensive. :D
I made some that feels and smells like the WL lube and it works very good.

Re: Has Dan’s White Lightning formula ever been determined

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:43 pm
by Kenny Wasserburger
Kurt’s lube is very close to Dan’s but abit harder.

Ozokerite, was the wax in Dan’s lube I know that for sure.

KennyWasserburger

Re: Has Dan’s White Lightning formula ever been determined

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:58 pm
by Kurt
Kenny, Yes I made that batch harder than I use here at home because of the potential heat in Montana and the long trip getting there.
I normally make it like room temperature real butter so it get consumed in the bore and not looking like an unused wad on the ground. :D

Re: Has Dan’s White Lightning formula ever been determined

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:58 pm
by Tasmanian Rebel
Jim(Jimbo) Terry who sells BP stuff did a lot of investigating and came up with it I think. His business is called "Gentleman Jim" and may can get from him. According to Dan it was difficult to make and like mentioned above he wanted it to be non-toxic in case some child ate it. About a year before he died I mentioned to him he needed to give someone the formula and he told me his sister had it. After his funeral I learned two others( Jimbo and Jim Kidwell) asked him to do the same thing and told them also his sister had it. Well, come to find out sister didn't know what we were talking about. Never heard about it. I think Jimbo has it figured out.
Keith Lay

Re: Has Dan’s White Lightning formula ever been determined

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:46 pm
by TexasMac
Kurt may be on to something. Based on discussions with Dan I'm guessing it's:
4 parts ozokerite wax
2 parts meadowfoam oil or LubeGard Premium Universal Lubricant (61016)
2 parts anhydrous lanolin
BTW, meadowfoam oil is also used in the cosmetic industry and is edible. The edible requirement leaves out LubeGard and possibly lanolin although lanolin is not poisonous in small quantities.

After almost running out of White Lighting some time ago I ran across a guy that had some. I still have a little over 3lbs which should last a long time (kept in freezer when not using). I may try one of the above when I eventually use it all up.

Wayne

Re: Has Dan’s White Lightning formula ever been determined

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:59 am
by MSalyards
I think edible leaves the lubegard out . I thought I read where he had a problem with ozokerite and switched to kokum butter, which can be bought at yuppie stores in Cali. Lubegard was replaced with avocado oil because its high smoke temp and lanolin was also added.

Re: Has Dan’s White Lightning formula ever been determined

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:16 pm
by Kenny Wasserburger
It’s definitely ozokerite, and definitely not lubeguard, I believe it was meadow foam oil.

KW.

Re: Has Dan’s White Lightning formula ever been determined

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:11 pm
by Kurt
The thing with Oz wax is it has a verity of different grades and melting points plus gel strengths that make a good carrier of oils or what ever you want to add if this what you want to add in the lube. OZ wax will out perform B-wax.
Oil is not necessary for a good lube, there are other additives that work better than oils and oils have a issue for separating when conditions get hot.
Animal fatty acids are also a down side. When you see green in a freshly loaded round a few days after it's loaded you will see what the faddy acids will do to brass.


WHITE OZOKERITE WAX
S & P Number -
Melting Point Penetration 100/25 Deg.C5 Gel Strength
271P 84.4°C - 95.6°C 8-14 65-100
273P * 87.8°C - 96.1°C 4-10 65-85
996 73.9°C - 78.3°C 6-12 80-110
1016 71.1°C - 74.4°C 9-15 120 Max.
1020 73.3°C - 76.1°C 8-13 150 Max.
1021 74.4°C - 77.2°C 8-13 160 Max
1025 68.3°C - 71.1°C 10-15 112-120
1026 76.1°C - 78.9°C 6-14 65-95
1028 72.8°C - 76.1°C 7-13 100-130
1190 79.4°C - 85.0°C 8-14 65-95

S & P Number ATDM D-127 -
Drop Melting Point Penetration 100/25 Deg.C5 Gel Strength
2020 * 73.9°C - 79.4°C 10-20 Nil
2021 * 75.0°C - 80.6°C 6-15 Nil
2026 * 79.4°C - 85.0°C 6-12 Nil
2101 * 76.1°C - 81.7°C
10-20 Nil
2173 * 62.7°C - 68.3°C 10-16 Nil
2190 * 79.4°C - 85.0°C 6-14 Nil
2248 * 64.4°C - 67.8°C 7-13 Nil

Re: Has Dan’s White Lightning formula ever been determined

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:06 am
by Pilgrim
I found White Lightning to be a very good lube however I did experience one problem with it. The problem was that I could not lube bullets until very near the time they would be shot. If the lead bullets were lubed and stored either loaded or not loaded the lube became "fuzzy" and seemed to attack the lead after a few weeks. This was a problem since I lube in pan sized batches. Friends using White Lightning also experienced this. Now my question for those trying to duplicate Dan's lube is "have you experienced this reaction between your lube and the lead bullet?"

Re: Has Dan’s White Lightning formula ever been determined

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:34 am
by Steve Ueckert
Fortunately for me, I located earlier this week, a pound and a partial pound, of WL "Dip Formula" in a garage freezer, which I had forgotten about since going into temporary retirement from BP shooting. Well, that temporary is about to end and it's time to consume the Swiss 1.5 and Federal Match primes I have stashed.

Don't try eating any lube with Lube Gard in it.

I have some .32-40 long, long bullets dipped with WL ~2009, which, despite the lube looking a bit fuzzy, the bullets look completely loadable and will soon "be sent".

--Steve in HouTex

Re: Has Dan’s White Lightning formula ever been determined

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:32 pm
by TexasMac
Pilgrim wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:06 am I found White Lightning to be a very good lube however I did experience one problem with it. The problem was that I could not lube bullets until very near the time they would be shot. If the lead bullets were lubed and stored either loaded or not loaded the lube became "fuzzy" and seemed to attack the lead after a few weeks. This was a problem since I lube in pan sized batches. Friends using White Lightning also experienced this. Now my question for those trying to duplicate Dan's lube is "have you experienced this reaction between your lube and the lead bullet?"
Dan’s comment on long term storage of bullets lubed with White Lightning

“WL should not be used if long-term, lubed-bullet storage is desired. Lubes with lots of beeswax will hold up for a long time if stored properly. But beeswax creates quite a bit of fouling in the bore and does nothing to improve fouling control. It is basically just a carrier for the active ingredients as well as a preservative. If you leave WL-lubed bullets in moist, warm weather, in a few weeks the lube will absorb too much moisture and pop out of the grooves, or the mice and rats will eat it.” :lol: :lol: :lol:
=======================================

Following is a discussion I had with Dan shortly afterwards:

Hi Dan,

You mentioned in a earlier PM to me that, "If you leave WL-lubed bullets in moist, warm weather, in a few weeks the lube will absorb too much moisture and pop out of the grooves, or the mice and rats will eat it."
Another guy that has reportedly used WL recently sent me a message indicating that WL-lubed bullets stored for some time in room ambient temp. conditions started to grow "whiskers".

He is referring to moisture absorption, which does look like whiskers.

I'm not sure what he meant by whiskers, but I'm assuming it was mold growing due to the moisture content. Do you have any idea what the shelf life is for WL?

Since I live in a relatively dry area and store lubed bullets in the linen closet, the most temperate part of the house, the lube in the grooves will last longer than the bullets take to age-soften again after 1.5 years. The lube will last indefinitely in the container, no need to freeze it.

Would storing it in a freezer eliminate shelf life concerns? How about the same for WL lubed bullets sealed in plastic zip lock bags?

That would work.

I currently store my cast bullets, lubed or unlubed in plastic bags, in the freezer anyway to stop or at least slow down hardness changes. I would think that would also take care of moisture absorption and shelf life issues with WL. Thanks.

Wayne
Cheers,
DanT

Re: Has Dan’s White Lightning formula ever been determined

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:39 pm
by TexasMac
Steve Ueckert wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:34 am Fortunately for me, I located earlier this week, a pound and a partial pound, of WL "Dip Formula" in a garage freezer, which I had forgotten about since going into temporary retirement from BP shooting. Well, that temporary is about to end and it's time to consume the Swiss 1.5 and Federal Match primes I have stashed.

Don't try eating any lube with Lube Gard in it.

I have some .32-40 long, long bullets dipped with WL ~2009, which, despite the lube looking a bit fuzzy, the bullets look completely loadable and will soon "be sent".

--Steve in HouTex
Steve,

White Lightning definitely does not have LubeGard in it or it would be pink. Dan did like LubeGard but based on my discussions with him he settled on meadowform oil which is edible. What I was not clear on was the wax, but based on comments from others I believe we've concluded it's ozokerite wax.

Wayne

Re: Has Dan’s White Lightning formula ever been determined

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:18 am
by John Boy
It’s been determined Dan’s White Lightning will forever remain a mystery. My lube of choice for years will remain a 40% Paraffin, 40% pure white Mutton Tallow and a 20% of either Oz or Beeswax with a small amount of Lanolin
No mold, strong adhesive to the lube grooves, no melting in high temperatures, produces a soft foul and doesn’t go bad for years

Re: Has Dan’s White Lightning formula ever been determined

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:53 am
by Kurt
Soy Wax plus Vaseline plus some hard Buff tallow is my choice :D