Shiloh Rifle Forums

A nice 40-65 might ease that divorce thing.

Now that sounds nice!

Some of those rules do seem silly when we don't even have separate classes for scope and iron sights (don't need to) and shooters can use a stool and sitting cross sticks if they can't get to prone. (Which is fine by me - they get to shoot!!!) I personally don't think pushing or hammering or length of the ends of the cross sticks or the weight of the rifle really mean too much. I have never heard of anyone saying "Hey your rifle weighs 12lbs 3 oz and you have an unfair advantage." And if scoped can weigh 15 lbs and compete equally with iron sight rifles then why do the iron sight rifles have to weigh less? Tell me that. If there is any limit at all on BPCR rifles it should one limit - 15lbs.
In BPTR, some shooters use real heavy bull barrelled "Tollifson" rifles with a scope and again I have never heard anyone complain about them having an unfair advantage or there even being a distinct class for just those shooters. Basically who cares? I do strongly feel a BP match should be BP only. Duplex or smokeless does change the game. Other than that.....
What matters is your attention to detail in developing loads, fouling control, wind analysis, and trigger actuating. I would just show up and shoot. I do just show up and shoot.

Your welcome to come up to WI next month for 4 days of shooting (2 of mid range and 2 at 1k)


matt

You folks are all awesome, I appreciate the invitations and encouragement!

SFogler wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:39 pm Some of those rules do seem silly when we don't even have separate classes for scope and iron sights (don't need to) and shooters can use a stool and sitting cross sticks if they can't get to prone. (Which is fine by me - they get to shoot!!!) I personally don't think pushing or hammering or length of the ends of the cross sticks or the weight of the rifle really mean too much. I have never heard of anyone saying "Hey your rifle weighs 12lbs 3 oz and you have an unfair advantage." And if scoped can weigh 15 lbs and compete equally with iron sight rifles then why do the iron sight rifles have to weigh less? Tell me that. If there is any limit at all on BPCR rifles it should one limit - 15lbs.
In BPTR, some shooters use real heavy bull barrelled "Tollifson" rifles with a scope and again I have never heard anyone complain about them having an unfair advantage or there even being a distinct class for just those shooters. Basically who cares? I do strongly feel a BP match should be BP only. Duplex or smokeless does change the game. Other than that.....
What matters is your attention to detail in developing loads, fouling control, wind analysis, and trigger actuating. I would just show up and shoot. I do just show up and shoot.

At Friendship, IN and at Ashland, KY, we do have separate classes ( and awards) for Iron Sight and Scope. But I haven't run into any local match (or regional) that uses a scale.

But at the BPCR Silhouette Nationals next week, I bet they will have a scale! Which is why I will have to borrow a rifle from my shooting partner to shoot the Iron Sight match! (Pretty good partner, eh? )

I guess the folks that know why the (seemingly arbitrary) limit of 12 lb 2 oz makes sense are keeping it a secret!

The truck is loaded and attached to the trailer. I mowed, and took out the trash. I'll see you in PA tomorrow. BTW, looks like Willie placed third in AAA in the .22 match, if I understand the results that Bly posted.

Woody

Willie was 3rd AAA on day-2. Only daily class winners (1st, 2nd & 3rd). There were no aggregate winners declared other than the overall MW in scope & irons.

desert deuce wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:14 am While I do not know why, NRA established 12 pounds 2 ounces max for silhouette.

Yes, I do wonder where the original silhouette committee came up with 12#2oz for the irons weight. Same with approving falling block rifles up thru 1896 design and then allowing at least two post-1904 (coil-spring high wall & Stevens 44 1/2 - but not the much earlier Farquharson & Borchardt falling block actions).

desert deuce wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:14 am Since NRA is out of the area of silhouette competition by choice................

This in incorrect. While the NRA is doing very little or nothing to support anything but "run&gun" competitions, the full slate of national silhouette competitions (BPCR, rimfire, pistol cartridge & big-bore levergun and high power) starts this Tuesday, July 27 at the Ridgway Rifle Range in PA. As of yesterday there was a total of 105 competitors signed up for BPCR scope & irons (likely a number of those are shooting both).

Let me refresh your memory and clarify a few things.

I was referring to Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Silhouette exclusively.

Remembering the division created holding two qualifying National Matches, one East one West, with an overall Champion to be chosen at a succeeding match to be held elsewhere at a time place to be announced and NRA would select who would compete in the Championship. That third match was never held. (Ahh how soon we forget.)

As classic a case of divide and conquer as could have been devised, which I strongly suspect was driven by Competitions Division not liking to make trips to Raton as much as anything else. Wah, laah....the move to Ridgeway. Commuting distance from Fairfax?

I was in the Black Powder Committee Meeting at NRA HQ when director of Competitions Division told the Committee he wanted Black Powder out of Competitions Division, out of NRA. Remembering, at the same time showing an interest in active NRA participation in the Q. Obviously the Q dodged that bullet.

Here where I shoot in the West, I see no "NRA" participation or interest in Black Powder Competition whatsoever and it seems to be reemerging because the people organizing and running the matches want to put on quality matches that are fun to shoot in for the competitor. What a novel concept?

The fact of the matter is that a small group of political operatives seek to consolidate control of all things black powder, NRA or otherwise. This move is being facilitated by the NRA and those tools of the NRA whom you may think today are your friends may eventually prove otherwise tomorrow.

Support your local matches in any discipline and those that are producing quality matches that are fun apart from NRA influence where ever they are held and when the next shoe drops that sport will be less adversely affected with the real potential of continued growth.

Just stating the obvious.

Since NRA is out of the area of silhouette competition by choice................[/quote]

This is not correct. Those of us that shoot all the rifle Silhouette sports know the NRA is still present in a lot of matches, but the NRA has it's hands full right now just surviving.

Backing any local shooting match is good for all the shooting sports. Run and Gun sports are VERY popular as are the Single Action shooting sports. Shoot them all, support them all.

We shot the Big BPCR match at Raton and it wasn't NRA backed, but was a good match and we enjoyed it. Jim Luke put on a good NRA lever action match at Raton with over 100 shooters and it was an NRA match that everyone enjoyed also.

No matter what organization puts on a match, shoot it and support them...especially match directors and their co workers.

This move is being facilitated by the NRA and those tools of the NRA whom you may think today are your friends may eventually prove otherwise tomorrow.

RE. origins of some of the NRA silhouette rules, from the Fall 1999, Issue 27, “The Black Powder Cartridge News”:

“a limited equipment” sport…

“Thanks Al and Doc for BPCR by Bill Pace

“When Carlsen and I conceived of BPCRS, we thought in terms of a very simple game without a lot of gadgetry, especially one that would avoid the usual equipment race you see in so many other shooting competitions. You know just basically a rifle – a Sharps or a Rolling Block – and the stuff a Buffalo Hunter would have had.

“Al Hill, NRA Silhouette Committee member and one of the co-founders of BPCRS, was speaking to another shooter at the 1996 NRA BPCRS Championship. I listened as Al talked about their early shooting experiments, how they arrived at the n models allowed and dimensions, etc. This was my first national BPCRS match at Raton and over the next three days I had an opportunity to consider and remember Al’s comments.”

The rest of the article is a tongue in cheek discussion of what equipment/gadgets are needed.

desert deuce wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:59 am This move is being facilitated by the NRA and those tools of the NRA whom you may think today are your friends may eventually prove otherwise tomorrow.

Nopers.

“When Carlsen and I conceived of BPCRS, we thought in terms of a very simple game without a lot of gadgetry, especially one that would avoid the usual equipment race you see in so many other shooting competitions. You know just basically a rifle – a Sharps or a Rolling Block – and the stuff a Buffalo Hunter would have had.

I have shot about all kinds of silhouette competition and BPCRS seems to be the only one reaming "pure".

Jeanne and I tried highpower rifle and I liked it, but some of the race gun folks looked down on my stock vanguard in 7-08 I think.
We tried smallbore with stock guns, IHMSA and even our beloved Lever action silhouette has been infected with the gadget race.

BPCRS seems to be the only one holding on to what started it.