Shiloh Rifle Forums

The largest consumer of black powder is the U.S. Govt. It is used as a primer in artillery ammunition. I believe purchasing stipulations require that it be produced domestically. We civilian shooters are a small piece of the action. I feel sure that domestically produced black powder will be available again. When? I don't have any idea. A foreign manufacturer could produce the powder here to meet the demand. I hope I'm not wrong on this. Hang in there. Foreign suppliers will pick up production to feed the demand. Prices will no doubt be higher but Biden says it will just be temporary. Yeah, right!

No doubt that Biden‘s Chinese handler‘s are pleased with the Black powder plant closing down.

Like lake City Arsenal and Federal, this could this turn out to be a GOCO facility?

https://www.baesystems.com/en-us/featur ... erated-101

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHLS3dwxr4o&t=268s

Wayne

I think Ray hit the nail on the head. Just hope to God Swiss doesn’t have the same issues cause that’s about the only viable alternative to quality powder as far as I can see. Maybe someone will buy the formula and restart the company but I think that is a long shot.

I had lunch today with a Master distributor of Goex. He had a recent conversation with a representative of the company and it is the cost of insurance that is driving the shutdown. That is the word I got today.

Is there any theory or idea of a way to immunize an industry against Liability when the market need surpasses the risk assessment ?
I would think the military need for BP would have a rather big influence on the issue in congress.
The trouble there of course is if BP production is militarized then the public would not have access most likely.
Foreign supply does not make any sense at all as far as a reliable source.
I wonder if diverse locations of the production chain would add any safety to the industry ? What is the most dangerous and explosion prone part of BP production? Cake milling, screening , packaging ????
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Hard to speculate what the cause of, in particular, this latest explosion was as it appears to be going unverified. Which takes us back to the saying, "We don't know what we don't know." Which knowing is far different than hearing. I don't trust reports in main stream media. Some of the information coming out may not tell the whole story.

I certainly would not want to find myself in the position of needing to employ "competent" people in America these days and at the same time have to comply with federally mandated hiring practices much less in a unionized shop. I know, I know, there are folks reading this that think that unionization is the greatest invention since the uplift bra, BUT, they are not running or working in a shop that manufactures this type of explosives.

I also clearly recall the difference in performance between the Moosic Goex product and the Minden Goex product and being told at the time by Red Neck that the primary problem was that the experienced hands stayed in PA.

Non union worker: Hey Joe, we need to clean that up over there, that could cause a fire or an explosion. I didn't see that, I'll clean it up right now, thanks. Union Worker: Hey Joe, we need to clean that up over there, that could cause a fire or an explosion. That's not my job, stick it up your ars.

Coltsmoke wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:03 pm Non union worker: Hey Joe, we need to clean that up over there, that could cause a fire or an explosion. I didn't see that, I'll clean it up right now, thanks. Union Worker: Hey Joe, we need to clean that up over there, that could cause a fire or an explosion. That's not my job, stick it up your ars.

That isn’t true. The opposite is true.

Johnny I telling exactly what we experienced with having two paint making facilities 70 miles apart. One was a union plant and the other was not. While visiting the union plant we needed a piece of equipment moved out of the way, it went thru 3 different people and 30 minutes later the employee that the forklift was assigned to moved it. 30 minutes to get a 10 second job done. Needless to say that facility was shut down. Done the same with one just like it in California. Maybe your experience was or is different in another business somewhere else, but I know what happened where I am.

most unions turn good workers into mediocre works no reward for working hard kind of like socialism art

Since Europe has 30% more people and 1/10th the attorneys, insurance may not be as expensive over there. A positive for Swiss.
Isn't it amazing that the best black powder comes from one of the most socialist & strong union countries in the world? Same with smokeless, Vihtavuori is made in Finland, THE most socialist of countries. Maybe what we need is more and stronger unions.

OK fair disclosure....I've been in a construction union since 2000. In fact, I'm the president of my local. The $100 a month stipend plus paid dues signifies me as a genuine "big shot" too LOL....I started off non-union in 1989 right after I got out of the Marine Corps and was hanging around the Chico Billiards and this guy named Doug said he knew where I could get a job. I've worked both sides of the fence.

I'm in commercial construction: drywall, steel stud framing, structural framing, high end drywall finishing, fire proofing, sound proofing, seismic work, so forth. My company competes on the open market against non union companies and we win our fair share, enough for me to earn $100K plus in a year. The guy who owns my company is himself a former union finisher who worked his way up the ranks and opened his own shop (electing to go union with it).

The realities of building modern office spaces, high rise buildings, really most any structure with a big footprint, dictate a level of training and safety certification (for every individual worker) that makes it very hard for non union shops to keep up. My union provides all needed safety classes (eg: first aid/CPR, scissorlift, aerial manlift, rigging, fall protection, OSHA 10 and 30, scaffold), plus upgrade classes (eg: blueprint, lead awareness/abatement, asbestos awareness/abatement, too many others to list) for all our members (at no cost to the employer). Individual companies would have to either train one of their own employees to then train all their other employees, or hire outsiders to come in and get their employees certified on these things. Some of these "certs" expire as well, so guys would have to get re-certified on a periodic basis.

All this is needed because of the huge safety risk involved in this kind of work. The end customers (and their investors) demand that all personnel entering these types of job sites adhere to a fixed set of safety rules. Currently, they are also coming out in droves and demanding Covid vaccine for all persons even setting foot on the job site as well. We are trying to fight against that as a union, but you can't go into someone else's house and then tell them how things are going to be.

It's very hard for a small outfit to keep up with all this without help. Our union provides that help. There are a couple of big non-union outfits in town that are able to do this kind of work as well, but their guys make a lot less money than we do.

That one comment cheesed me off because no one I have seen in the last 21 years on a union site has ever acted like that. Guys (and girls) I work with generally have families and lives outside of work and everyone wants to get home in one piece. Walking away from a known safety hazard would go over just about as well as messing with someone's lunch box.

I'm not mad or butt-hurt and not everyone should join the union either. However, my workers are not "mediocre", they're first rate. That's how they can compete on even ground even making double the non-union guys wages. It ain't the 1980's UAW anymore.

Well said, JonnyV. I spent 30yr+ as a project manager/supervisor building semiconductor manufacturing plants in TX, NM, AZ & OR. Rarely did we contract with non-union shops as they simply do not have the 'stroke' to provide the trained man-power & equipment needed to do the quality work required on time & on budget. Not only do the unions provide the required training they are no BS about doing the work. F-up's were not tolerated. Time is money and don't have the time to fix mistakes. Get it right the first time. Small projects can sometimes be non-union. Large projects almost never. Cannot afford the lack of competent, trained personnel. Unions draw personnel from all over to 'get er done'. Only reason non-union folks get paid what they do with any benefits is the unions folks fought long and hard to get same for everyone. This country was built from the late 1800's to today by unions.