Gun Safes

[Mike Hansen]

Fort Knox safes are supposed to be among the best. The maddening thing is, they never list prices.

Mike

http://www.ftknox.com/

[Buckskinner]

Rdurk

All of the posts you have are good suggestions, I would like to add to them.

5 yr. ago I was broken into had 5 handguns ripped off. I went safe looking before the guys in the blue were done. I have a Heritage brand safe it will hold 24 rifles 50 handguns the will ,jewlery, etc. Most of the Name brand gunsafes are made in or around Orem Utah the Heritage is made by former employes of Liberty. Most models are fire RESISTANT they are certified to 1200 deg. for 15 min. You can get any of them without the fire insulation. The biggest difference is in the material they are made of. Some are as thin as a pop can some have 1/2" plate. Most are hardened around the mechanics in front, the sides and back are much thinner materal. You have to ask they woun't tell you! The hinges should be internal! The cost of mine was 2400.00 5 yr. ago!

Two good things, the men in blue recovered my firearms in three days, they were held for evidence so I didn't get them back for a year. They were caught and are in the can!

Go get the biggest and heaviest damn safe you can afford!!

Good luck

Gary

[Rdurk]

Thanks for the recommendations! I believe I'll be putting the safe in a closet in a bedroom that has a concrete slab underneath .. that way I can bolt it to the floor to make up for a somewhat lighter weight. Got a good sized walk in closet where a 24-26 inch. wide one will fit off to one side without taking up too much space. Only the door will be exposed as the sides will be blocked by built in cabinets. Only one way in! The Fort Knox is built like a brick (you know what). Turns out there is a dealer locally who handles Fort Knox and Cannon. Cannon is more in my budget .. but the Fort Knox sure sounds like a superb unit. Thanks again!!

[VAshooter]

I have two safes, both are commercial Mosler safes that I bought used. The small one I use as a pistol safe. It weighs a little over a 1000 lbs. and is cut proof meaning that it has copper sandwiched between layers of steel about 1/2 inch thick. The copper is supposed to draw the heat away if someone cuts it with a torch. I paid about $600 for it at a surplus store. Me and some friends got it into the basement.
The second safe is a big two door model that has a 2.5 hour fire rating and is also burglury and securities rated by UL. It weighs a little over 4500 lbs and I had a security service install it. That safe cost me $1500.00 which included $275.00 for transportation and installation. It was origionally a payroll safe for a large local company. When I bought it it was in like new condition.
I went with the used commercial safes because they were cheaper for their size and a lot of the "gun safes" out there are not that hard to break into. The doors are massive with heavy locking bolts but the sides and back are 10 or 12 gauge steel which you can cut through with a power hacksaw in about 30 minutes. Putting them in a closet makes it much more difficult to get at the back and sides and bolting them down helps too. I think just about any of them will keep out the teen punks and if a determined thief does break in you have proof to show your insurance company and the police.

[TPSGMS]

I have a bit of experience on this topic. I have owned a Browning Gold--non fire-rated 800 lbs (approx). 16 gun interior, for approx 21 years. Great investment, good securitu (S & G tumbler)-12 pin. Back when I purchased it it cost me approx $800.00 installed. I would buy it again if it was the limit of what I could afford. Last spring (2003), at the Harrisburg, PA Sports Show, I looked for and purchased a Fort Knox "TITAN 6637"- at the show. Purchase price with all options and inside delivery was approx $3,000. (List price was a tad under $6K in catalog)(S&G tumbler, 21- 1inch pins. Advice, buy the biggest, most highly-appointed safe you canAnd purchase somewhere that the retailers are a bit more price-conscious. The ft.knox weighs in @ 1600 lbs. (the door alone weighs 500 lbs + ) If I had been able to afford the larger, fire-rated Ft.Knox years ago, I probably would never have required the purchase of both. After a lot of research, my opinion is that the premier safes available when all factors are factored in are---non-fire/ Browning, fire-rated/Ft. Knox. Both companies have great web sites. Do not go by manf.sugg.retail prices. Good luck, and absolutely get an electric dehumidifier installed. Tom

[Chris J. Flynn]

Dear Rdurk: A couple of thoughts re safes. First, extra capacity is always useful, not only to store future acquisitions, but to avoid banging guns together when trying to gently place and re-place rifles and shotguns into too-narrow racks. It seems all my firearms have two things in common --lots of sharp corners and soft sides!
Fireproofing may be useful not only to resist fire, but to help avoid condensation caused by temperature swings.
If you put your safe on a cement floor, set it on some washers or something else to raise it slightly so that air can circulate, no matter how "waterproof" your underlayments are beneath the concrete. Bolt it to the floor. Twice.
Use a small "goldenrod" (brand name) - type heater to keep contents slightly warmer than outside air to resist condensation and rust. I buy the silica gel dessicant used to dry flowers in bulk and set in a glass pan on the shelf to keep moisture minimized. Dry periodically in a warm oven.
If you need to move your safe, try golf balls. Tip the safe up, slide a few under the safe, tip other way, slide in a few more, and roll. Better yet, find three big strong friends with moving experience and get a safe/piano dolly. By all means, when ordering, pay the movers to install exactly where you want it. Make sure everyone understands ahead of time that it is to be installed at a designated spot in the house, not on your front porch. There will be extra charges for stairs, etc.
I have both a Fort Knox and a Cannon. You get what you pay for. You can phone Fort Knox and order direct, but need to negotiate exactly what shipping entails and to what spot the safe will be delivered.
If you have a "hurricane room"/tornado room/ bunker or intend to build same, look into having a safe-type door and frame delivered and installed as the access to the room. Then your "safe" can be really big!
Even if burglars were not a problem, there's substantial peace of mind not having to worry about curious children and foolish adults.
If you need to store gunpowder securely, seek good advice on proper magazine construction, especially for black powder. Redneck?
Bests, Chris Flynn

[dozer]

I got a moving tip from a dealer. Use 3/4" or 1" pvc pipe cut in 2-3' sections. Use them as rollers. The safe moves easily and they won't damage a floor. I've moved very heavy equipment on pipe rollers and once watched a 500,000+ pound freon freezer being moved on rollers from a rail siding into and positioned in a building.

The fire proofing inside most safes is just 5/8" type X drywall, one or two layers. I got that info from a manufacturer. Some use an extra layer of cement board. I'm considering getting a larger, less expensive fire proof safe (lower rated fireproof) and adding more type X.
Doz

[bigbore]

Check out Sam's Club out your way. I picked up a nice Winchester 22 gun safe for $675 + tax.
Isn't strange how we husbands aren't allow to fill a gun safe but women can always buy another jewelry box?

[Bentsight]

Something to consider after you purchase the safe is where you will locate it in your house or shop. Heaven forbid it, but if there is a fire in your home and the safe is not on a ground floor at 500lbs.+ it will probably end up in the basement with all the burning coals and debris. Don't believe there are too many safes out there that can handle 1500+degrees for extended periods of time (1-2 hours). I'm a firefighter and have seen this first hand. I have installed mine on an outside wall in the basement next to the sliding walkout doors. That way if there is a problem it is close to an opening and easily accessable for fire crews to cool it off and hopefully save the contents.

Mike

[Rickd]

Bentsight. Here in South Florida we don't have basements .. if your lot is 10 feet above sea level you are on a "hill", as 6-9 feet is pretty common. Remember basements though .. had a big one back East. 1st. floor location .. in a BR closet .. between some built in closets most likely.. cement slap underneath. Local dealer has Fort Knox .. which looks like a very good contender. Good shootin! (and I need it soon .. as Kirk just informed that my brand spankin new Shiloh 40-65 #1; hand picked extra fancy wood; AAA finish; Bone & Charcoal CC; pewter tip; steel butt plate; MVA front sight Kelley Soule mid range tang ... SHIPPED TODAY!!!!! YAHOOOOOO! Good Shootin!!

[Ray Newman]

FWIW: All of this talk ‘bout safes & storage is very good; however, I would like to add a few more points to think ‘bout.

Security really means nothing if everyone in the world knows that you have firearms &/or other valuables in the house. I have been in a few homes where the fancy epoxy painted w/ highly polished brass fittings safe is prominently displayed in the living or family room. Or the kids are telling all their little friends about “Dad’s gun collection” which will grow @ ea. telling. Before you know it, the Trapdoor carbine which you say is like the ones that Custer's troops had will turn into one that WAS @ the Little Big Horn.

For example, when I lived in CA, one of my wife’s friends just happened to see me putting one of my rifles away in the garage safe. Her response was “wow look @ all those guns!“ Well, the next time she came by the house (’bout 2 weeks later), her flakey live-in boyfriend (a former small time dealer of controlled substances) & his teenage son (w/ a record of home burglary) was w/ her. Thank God we were packing up to move, as the guy says: “I hear you got a big gun collection & we really want to see it.” I replied that I sold it all as well as just ‘bout all of my antique & older wood working tools to help pay for the upgrades on the new house. My wife caught on & said “yeah, Ray made some big money.” Both the guy & his son didn’t look too happy--sort of disappointed??-- & left soon after. Same w/ moving your firearms from the garage/house to car. Disguise them. You never who is looking & what their intentions are.

Another thing to think ‘bout is what will be done w/ your firearms after your death. Trust me we all are going to die. I knew a guy who felt that his 3 sons would evenly divide up his collection after his death. Sure thing. Five years later, none of the 3 brothers talk to ea. other because the oldest son--the executor--supposedly took the best stuff & all 3 claim that his other brothers got what Dad said was really theirs. Even the sister is pissed because her husband "got nothing from Dad". I’ve seen it happen in my own family. Write down who gets what!

Also leave a list of approx value, serial numbers, & photographs--not only for insurance purposes but to protect your spouse /heirs from unscrupulous dealers & so-called friends. Most family members have no idea as to what firearms, tools, etc., actually/really are worth. I know a Sleaz Ball who bought a 6 month old $1800 Delta Unisaw for about $300.00. According to him, that’s "all" the widow wanted. Of course this was after he convinced her that used table saws bring no money & she’d be lucky if she got $300 from another buyer. & this was from a “friend” of the deceased.

Same w/ your spouse’s collection(s). I always thought that they were just old porcelain dolls & not really worth much. For a few of them, was I ever wrong!

Be honest w/ your appraisal of what you have. Just because it says “Winchester” , it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s worth really Big Money.

Get Will or a Living Trust. I prefer a trust--no matter how big or small your estate-- as you avoid probate & the resulting atty’s fees. When we moved to WA ST, we had our trust updated to include the new house. The atty doing it tried to tell us that a trust wasn’t really necessary as WA ST only takes ‘bout 4 months to probate a will. I asked him “why should my wife wait four months for the proceeds of my will /property/finances & also pay his firm when a trust avoids all of this?” He really couldn’t give me answer.

I also suggest that you let your executor/spouse know where all of your insurance policies, VA paperwork, union pension papers, etc., are located. Put it all in one place. Make copies. One thing also to think about: check who is listed as a beneficiary on any older insurance policies. When I worked @ the VA, it was not uncommon for the widow to find out that she was not the beneficiary on an old GI life insurance policy; instead “Sugar Smith” or --even worse--the hated former spouse was.

Write down what is to be done w/ your Mortal Remains. Funerals are damned expensive, esp. if someone has the idea of "only-the-best-for-Pop"….

As I said, jsut a few things to think about.

[Texas Shooter]

Ray:

Great advice. My wife and I are currently updating all our "Important" paperwork. It's real easy to put it off, but if you don't get it done by a competent attorney and keep it updated, you have a potential disaster on your hands.

You obviously are on top of your estate planning. Weel done.

Texas Shooter

[Todd Birch]

A friend of mine in the Cariboo country of British Columbia had a marvelous collection of Winchesters and Colts, some with historical connections. His health was failing and he wasn't doing well financially either.

Since I was getting into Cowboy Action Shooting, I offered to buy a couple of his guns at market value but he refused. They were going to "stay in the family" and go to his son. Fair enough, I thought.

Upon his demise, his son couldn't get rid of them soon enough with many of them falling into the hands of the very man he despised most while still alive, his arch enemy.

I'm sure the old boy rolled over in his grave!

Kind of gives a man pause, don't it?

Todd

[KenSt]

www.zanottiarmor.com

[woodpuppy]

hhmmmm, buy new safe of buy new Sharps........

I've got a $400 Sentry, very small and full at this point. With a HRA M1 on the way, the safe is absolutely full. The op-rod on M1's and M1A's tend to rub nearby rifles, so I have to space them differently.

I measured to make sure a Shiloh with 32" barrel would fit inside. I guess a new Sharps can take the place of my Rem 870, that can live in the closet or somewhere.