Hello,
Is the ratio differences used for specific purposes? (Hunting vs. Target shooting)
Or
Are they just a shooters preference?
or
What seems to work best in the rifle?
I have heard so many great things about the John Paul, 540 Creedmore bullet (45001), and they are offered here at what appears to be a reasonable deal, if the quality control is as accurate as it is advertised.
I was looking at:
http://www.sagebrushproducts.com/bullets.htm#Jones45001
I am starting my load development, would it be a bad idea to use the match grade, sized, pre-lubed bullets @ $36.00 per 100?
That seems to me a resonable thing for someone just starting. Is this wrong?
Any thoughts on all these questions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Texas Shooter
20:1 or 30:1 that is the Question...............
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Texas Shooter
- Posts: 1092
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:51 pm
- Location: North Texas
20:1 or 30:1 that is the Question...............
"Aim Small, Miss Small!"
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Bad Ass Wallace
- Posts: 312
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:57 am
- Location: Australia
The alloy used in any rifle must be the most accurate that should be used.
To determine the correct alloy is through trial & error and knowing a few facts about how bullets work.
Firstly an alloy 1:30 is very soft, and even with BP pressures a slightly undersize projectile will obturate to perfectly fit the bore and if the rifling is deep the bullet will travel perfectly to the target.
Using a slightly harder alloy 1:25, the projectile will be slightly larger from the same mould because the harder alloy has more tin and possibly antimony which form a crystalline structure
Going even harder 1:20, the projectile will be again slightly larger in diameter. This harder projectile is most likely most suited to rifles with fast twists, higher velocities and shallow rifling.
As far as relating this to targets or hunting, the softer bullets will usually expand better on game and if shooting silhouettes the softer bullet will knock over more because of 'dwell time' on the steel. For shooting paper the harder bullet will usually shoot best.
In conclusion, I always taylor my alloy to be the softest alloy that can be used to perform accurately in my rifle and then the task required.
To determine the correct alloy is through trial & error and knowing a few facts about how bullets work.
Firstly an alloy 1:30 is very soft, and even with BP pressures a slightly undersize projectile will obturate to perfectly fit the bore and if the rifling is deep the bullet will travel perfectly to the target.
Using a slightly harder alloy 1:25, the projectile will be slightly larger from the same mould because the harder alloy has more tin and possibly antimony which form a crystalline structure
Going even harder 1:20, the projectile will be again slightly larger in diameter. This harder projectile is most likely most suited to rifles with fast twists, higher velocities and shallow rifling.
As far as relating this to targets or hunting, the softer bullets will usually expand better on game and if shooting silhouettes the softer bullet will knock over more because of 'dwell time' on the steel. For shooting paper the harder bullet will usually shoot best.
In conclusion, I always taylor my alloy to be the softest alloy that can be used to perform accurately in my rifle and then the task required.
Hold still Varmint, while I plugs yer!
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Texas Shooter
- Posts: 1092
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:51 pm
- Location: North Texas
Bad Ass Wallace:
Thanks for the email.
If I understand correctly,
You shoot what performs best in the rifle (Accuracy First)
"As far as relating this to targets or hunting, the softer bullets will usually expand better on game and if shooting silhouettes the softer bullet will knock over more because of 'dwell time' on the steel. For shooting paper the harder bullet will usually shoot best."
It's seems your telling me that the softer bullets are better for hunting and silhouettes. That being said, the accuracy must be good with a soft bullet because you wouldn't want to hunt with something that wasn't accurate, same with silhouettes. Why would hard bullets be better for paper?
I intend to shoot 45 and 50 caliber bullets at a velosity between 1150 and 1350 fps. These bullets will only be shot in Shiloh Sharps Rifles. Given the Depth of their rifling and the twist of their barrels, what would you recommend and why.
Thanks for the response,
Texas Shooter
Thanks for the email.
If I understand correctly,
You shoot what performs best in the rifle (Accuracy First)
"As far as relating this to targets or hunting, the softer bullets will usually expand better on game and if shooting silhouettes the softer bullet will knock over more because of 'dwell time' on the steel. For shooting paper the harder bullet will usually shoot best."
It's seems your telling me that the softer bullets are better for hunting and silhouettes. That being said, the accuracy must be good with a soft bullet because you wouldn't want to hunt with something that wasn't accurate, same with silhouettes. Why would hard bullets be better for paper?
I intend to shoot 45 and 50 caliber bullets at a velosity between 1150 and 1350 fps. These bullets will only be shot in Shiloh Sharps Rifles. Given the Depth of their rifling and the twist of their barrels, what would you recommend and why.
Thanks for the response,
Texas Shooter
"Aim Small, Miss Small!"
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ffffgdave@yahoo.com
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:05 pm
- Location: helena montana
the anserew was so obvious to me,, i use 25/1.. actually with open sights i cant tell the difference but my colt cimmeron 45 got best pennetration with this, without couasing blowby with too hard of lead as the cylinder alignment was not the best.. so i keep it in the pot and as a good all around its great.. it wont lead, it will obturate, it will pennetrate, and it does expand.. it must have a problem but i cant find it.. unless its too soft for the whizbang kids.. ... dave..
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Kelley O. Roos
- Posts: 3430
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:22 pm
- Location: Ca.
Bad Ass Wallace,
Don't agree with you on your point of "Firstly an alloy 1:30 is very soft, and even with BP pressures a slighty undersized projectile will obturate to perfectly fit the bore and if the rifling is deep the bullet will travel perfectly to the target." I only use 30/1 and have tested bullets sized from .452 to .457, and when I say test, thats shooting 4 or more matches with the sized bullets. Thats an average of 70 shots per match. I would get a decent group for 4 or five shots and then a flyer and couple more in the group and then another wild flyer. At the greater distance's this happened with greater regularity. The best sized bullet I've found has been groove size, .458 for my 45 and .406 for my 40. A note about the bore of the 40, it measures .399 X .406.. I shot as cast bullets and pan lube, my bullets never see a lube sizer. The barrels I use are cut rifled.
I know of one other guy who tried under sized bullets and he had the same trouble I had.
Kelley O.
Don't agree with you on your point of "Firstly an alloy 1:30 is very soft, and even with BP pressures a slighty undersized projectile will obturate to perfectly fit the bore and if the rifling is deep the bullet will travel perfectly to the target." I only use 30/1 and have tested bullets sized from .452 to .457, and when I say test, thats shooting 4 or more matches with the sized bullets. Thats an average of 70 shots per match. I would get a decent group for 4 or five shots and then a flyer and couple more in the group and then another wild flyer. At the greater distance's this happened with greater regularity. The best sized bullet I've found has been groove size, .458 for my 45 and .406 for my 40. A note about the bore of the 40, it measures .399 X .406.. I shot as cast bullets and pan lube, my bullets never see a lube sizer. The barrels I use are cut rifled.
I know of one other guy who tried under sized bullets and he had the same trouble I had.
Kelley O.
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Gunny
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2002 5:41 pm
- Location: California
B.A. Wallace
While Mr. Roos only disagreed with one of your points, I am going to have to disagree with just about all of your points.
However let us begin woth the possitives.
"The alloy used in any rifle must be the most accurate that should be used." If only it was that easy but a good point a good accurate alloy for your rifle is a pretty good starting point.
"To determine the correct alloy is through trial & error and knowing a few facts about how bullets work." Once again right on trial and error are all we have, and nothing is really cast into stone.
"Firstly an alloy 1:30 is very soft, and even with BP pressures a slightly undersize projectile will obturate to perfectly fit the bore and if the rifling is deep the bullet will travel perfectly to the target." Soft in comparrision to what? What is slightly undersized? Perfectly fit the bore? And travel perfectly to the target? If that was the case we all would win everymatch we ever enter.
"Using a slightly harder alloy 1:25, the projectile will be slightly larger from the same mould because the harder alloy has more tin and possibly antimony which form a crystalline structure" Have you actually ever cast bullets from the same mould and different alloys? If yes just how much difference in size was there? I don't know about where you come from but 25 to 1 "CAN NOT" contain any antimony. If it does it is not 25 to 1. 25 to 1 is 25 parts of lead and 1 part of tin, any other ingrediant and you have a complettly different alloy all together, with different results. The composition of 25 to 1 and 30 to 1 or all the same in regard to there ingrediants lead and tin that's all.
In your discussion you equate 20 to 1 with fast twist high vel and shallow rifling. Sorry just aint so in the real world. 20 to 1 is probably the most populiar of all of the lead tin mixes in silhouette no matter the twist or the depth of the rifling.
Your statement about dwell time as it relates to silhouette targets is a little wet as well. I dare anyone shooting any common alloy be it 30 to 1---25 to 1---20 to 1 or 16 to1 to be able to tell the difference in animals struct in silhouette. All of the above alloys are used and used with great succes.
Your finale comment about harder alloys and shooting paper is simply just beyond belief. Does the paper really care Mr. Wallace? And if it does care why would it prefer a harder alloy?
Gunny
While Mr. Roos only disagreed with one of your points, I am going to have to disagree with just about all of your points.
However let us begin woth the possitives.
"The alloy used in any rifle must be the most accurate that should be used." If only it was that easy but a good point a good accurate alloy for your rifle is a pretty good starting point.
"To determine the correct alloy is through trial & error and knowing a few facts about how bullets work." Once again right on trial and error are all we have, and nothing is really cast into stone.
"Firstly an alloy 1:30 is very soft, and even with BP pressures a slightly undersize projectile will obturate to perfectly fit the bore and if the rifling is deep the bullet will travel perfectly to the target." Soft in comparrision to what? What is slightly undersized? Perfectly fit the bore? And travel perfectly to the target? If that was the case we all would win everymatch we ever enter.
"Using a slightly harder alloy 1:25, the projectile will be slightly larger from the same mould because the harder alloy has more tin and possibly antimony which form a crystalline structure" Have you actually ever cast bullets from the same mould and different alloys? If yes just how much difference in size was there? I don't know about where you come from but 25 to 1 "CAN NOT" contain any antimony. If it does it is not 25 to 1. 25 to 1 is 25 parts of lead and 1 part of tin, any other ingrediant and you have a complettly different alloy all together, with different results. The composition of 25 to 1 and 30 to 1 or all the same in regard to there ingrediants lead and tin that's all.
In your discussion you equate 20 to 1 with fast twist high vel and shallow rifling. Sorry just aint so in the real world. 20 to 1 is probably the most populiar of all of the lead tin mixes in silhouette no matter the twist or the depth of the rifling.
Your statement about dwell time as it relates to silhouette targets is a little wet as well. I dare anyone shooting any common alloy be it 30 to 1---25 to 1---20 to 1 or 16 to1 to be able to tell the difference in animals struct in silhouette. All of the above alloys are used and used with great succes.
Your finale comment about harder alloys and shooting paper is simply just beyond belief. Does the paper really care Mr. Wallace? And if it does care why would it prefer a harder alloy?
Gunny
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one pretty and well preserved piece, but to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, worn out and defiantly shouting "WOW, what a ride!"
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Bad Ass Wallace
- Posts: 312
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:57 am
- Location: Australia
Gunny,
I generally agree with your replies but also note that this subject is extremely difficult to cover with a general comment in a single thread. Full coverage would take a book or two.
Firstly on alloys, who among us buys 99.99% pure lead and 99.99% pure tin? I said that the alloy may POSSIBLY have antimony and other trace elements. I use electrical cable sheething which is 99.34% pure but I don't know what the remainder is. Store bought 50/50 solder when analised in a University materials laboratory yeilded 43.6% Sn. 55.3% Pb Telluride, 0.68% Sb L, & 0.43% other. These variances make it impossible for anyone to confidently say that their favourite alloy is exactely 1:20?
Secondly, every rifle is different and will require extensive testing to determine the optimum combination alloy and load to get the best accuracy. My experience is with Pedersoli's which no doubt have very different rifling forms to that used by Shiloh. My 50/70 prefers 1:30 while the 40/65 groups best with a 1:20. Difference, the rifling in the 50 is deeper and bullet speed is less than the other.
I handload for such obscure BP calibres as 577 Snider and 577/450MH neither of which will shoot hard alloys with anywhere near the accuracy obtained with 1:40 alloy. The rifling forms in these rifles are what I call very agressive and bear into the projectile for almost the full circle. The snider uses a skirted projectile which will not obturate into the rifling if cast 1:20. Similarly I use the Lyman 40 & 45 tapered projectiles in my Sharps which group best when made of soft alloy. Other cast bullets from the same manufacturer, 40/400/Snover and 45/525/Postell group best when made of harder alloy.
As for shooting paper; I agree the paper don't care, but most shooters would agree that a load that gets there fast and flat is going to be less affected by wind than any other. This is not always possible to achieve with soft alloys without partially stripping in the rifling.
I generally agree with your replies but also note that this subject is extremely difficult to cover with a general comment in a single thread. Full coverage would take a book or two.
Firstly on alloys, who among us buys 99.99% pure lead and 99.99% pure tin? I said that the alloy may POSSIBLY have antimony and other trace elements. I use electrical cable sheething which is 99.34% pure but I don't know what the remainder is. Store bought 50/50 solder when analised in a University materials laboratory yeilded 43.6% Sn. 55.3% Pb Telluride, 0.68% Sb L, & 0.43% other. These variances make it impossible for anyone to confidently say that their favourite alloy is exactely 1:20?
Secondly, every rifle is different and will require extensive testing to determine the optimum combination alloy and load to get the best accuracy. My experience is with Pedersoli's which no doubt have very different rifling forms to that used by Shiloh. My 50/70 prefers 1:30 while the 40/65 groups best with a 1:20. Difference, the rifling in the 50 is deeper and bullet speed is less than the other.
I handload for such obscure BP calibres as 577 Snider and 577/450MH neither of which will shoot hard alloys with anywhere near the accuracy obtained with 1:40 alloy. The rifling forms in these rifles are what I call very agressive and bear into the projectile for almost the full circle. The snider uses a skirted projectile which will not obturate into the rifling if cast 1:20. Similarly I use the Lyman 40 & 45 tapered projectiles in my Sharps which group best when made of soft alloy. Other cast bullets from the same manufacturer, 40/400/Snover and 45/525/Postell group best when made of harder alloy.
As for shooting paper; I agree the paper don't care, but most shooters would agree that a load that gets there fast and flat is going to be less affected by wind than any other. This is not always possible to achieve with soft alloys without partially stripping in the rifling.
Hold still Varmint, while I plugs yer!
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N2
- Posts: 148
- Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:58 am
- Location: North Texas
Texas Shooter - Eventually you're going to find you need to cast your own bullets so you can try 20:1 and 30:1 sized from groove diameter to .001" or .002" greater than groove diameter and at a cost less than $36/100. Why don't you attend a local match or two and see what the people there are shooting. There just happens to be a silhouette match this Saturday about 113 miles south of you in Mexia/Coolidge/HOTSA and next Sunday about the same distance west of you in Graham. Both matches start at 9:00 AM. By the way, the PJ 45001 bullet is an excellent choice for a 45 caliber rifle with a 1-18" twist and there's nothing wrong with 20:1 alloy. - Nick
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Kelley O. Roos
- Posts: 3430
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:22 pm
- Location: Ca.
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Gunny
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2002 5:41 pm
- Location: California
Mr. Wallace,
Good post Sir !!
I understand the princables of which you speak in regard to lead alloys. However I do believe that it is possible to get lead of a known composition. The 30 to 1 that I commonaly load is "certified" to be 99.9 % pure. When using lead of a unknown composition it can not really be compared to a known alloy, would you not agree.
Different rifles certainly seem to like different compounds, of this you are most correct. That is a good thing, if every thing was the same for each rifle it would get boring.
Your comments however on the harder alloys and paper simply do not make sense to this country boy from East Texas. If a harder alloy shot better in a rifle when shot at paper targets would not the harder alloy be the superior choice for all shooting? And thusly be proved to be the best choice in that rifle. I also simply disagree with the premise that a harder alloy will indeed shoot faster and flatter than a softer one. Maybe on this point you and I will just have to agree to disagree.
But alais Mr. Wallace the quest does indeed go on for that perfect load.
Gunny
Good post Sir !!
I understand the princables of which you speak in regard to lead alloys. However I do believe that it is possible to get lead of a known composition. The 30 to 1 that I commonaly load is "certified" to be 99.9 % pure. When using lead of a unknown composition it can not really be compared to a known alloy, would you not agree.
Different rifles certainly seem to like different compounds, of this you are most correct. That is a good thing, if every thing was the same for each rifle it would get boring.
Your comments however on the harder alloys and paper simply do not make sense to this country boy from East Texas. If a harder alloy shot better in a rifle when shot at paper targets would not the harder alloy be the superior choice for all shooting? And thusly be proved to be the best choice in that rifle. I also simply disagree with the premise that a harder alloy will indeed shoot faster and flatter than a softer one. Maybe on this point you and I will just have to agree to disagree.
But alais Mr. Wallace the quest does indeed go on for that perfect load.
Gunny
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one pretty and well preserved piece, but to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, worn out and defiantly shouting "WOW, what a ride!"
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Bad Ass Wallace
- Posts: 312
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:57 am
- Location: Australia
Half a world away, we don't have access to the metal supply establishments like in the USA. Lead mostly comes from scrap metal merchants some of whom sell "Muckite" ingots. That is, they melt down any muck that looks like lead and sell it.
Our two best sources of pure lead are cable sheathing and roof flashing. Solder could come from anywhere and be of dubious composition. That's our local supply problem.
One thing I didn't mention was lube. If the lube doesn't do its job it don't matter what hard or soft alloy you are using. SPG here cost $16/stick and almost all brands are imported from USA at very inflated prices. I recently tried 'Lanotec' grease made from sheeps wool. Soft and messy to apply the darn stuff defies all established principles of cast bullet shooting.
In the 577/450 with 85gn FFG, I can fire 50 rounds without cleaning and no difference in accuracy from first to last shot. A single pass with a dry patch reveals a very soft greasy BP residue and a mirror finish bore. Next test will be in the 50/70 to see if enough Lanotec can coat the 34" barrel to be effective.
As for soft lead on paper, I've only been shooting this BPCR for 8 years through 7 different rifles and I ain't tried every possible combination yet. Gunny,you may well be right. The Lyman tapered bullets made of very soft alloy in 40 & 45 that I've been working with lately are outshooting the harder projectiles that I have used for some years. More extensive testing still required however before I can say they are truly consistant .
Left to right; Lyman 40cal Snover & Tapered, 520/462 577/450; Lyman 45cal Tapered & Postell
http://img50.photobucket.com/albums/v15 ... ast_45.jpg
This 7 shot target shot with Lyman 45/488gn Tapered bullet at 100yards (Cast approx 1:35).
http://img50.photobucket.com/albums/v15 ... rget_1.jpg
Our two best sources of pure lead are cable sheathing and roof flashing. Solder could come from anywhere and be of dubious composition. That's our local supply problem.
One thing I didn't mention was lube. If the lube doesn't do its job it don't matter what hard or soft alloy you are using. SPG here cost $16/stick and almost all brands are imported from USA at very inflated prices. I recently tried 'Lanotec' grease made from sheeps wool. Soft and messy to apply the darn stuff defies all established principles of cast bullet shooting.
In the 577/450 with 85gn FFG, I can fire 50 rounds without cleaning and no difference in accuracy from first to last shot. A single pass with a dry patch reveals a very soft greasy BP residue and a mirror finish bore. Next test will be in the 50/70 to see if enough Lanotec can coat the 34" barrel to be effective.
As for soft lead on paper, I've only been shooting this BPCR for 8 years through 7 different rifles and I ain't tried every possible combination yet. Gunny,you may well be right. The Lyman tapered bullets made of very soft alloy in 40 & 45 that I've been working with lately are outshooting the harder projectiles that I have used for some years. More extensive testing still required however before I can say they are truly consistant .
Left to right; Lyman 40cal Snover & Tapered, 520/462 577/450; Lyman 45cal Tapered & Postell
http://img50.photobucket.com/albums/v15 ... ast_45.jpg
This 7 shot target shot with Lyman 45/488gn Tapered bullet at 100yards (Cast approx 1:35).
http://img50.photobucket.com/albums/v15 ... rget_1.jpg
Hold still Varmint, while I plugs yer!
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deerhuntsheatmeup
- Posts: 2253
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 6:36 pm
- Location: Mississippi
as you guys know......
I have not been shooting BPCR but for 1 1/2 years but I have learned a little. I shoot 30-1 because it has totally eliminated leading in my rifles. Both my Shiloh and my son's 44.5 shoot the 20-1 or 30-1 equally well. But, neither of them leads at all using 30-1 and I like to shoot a 72 round match without worrying about it and I also don't wipe, just blow tube for the entire match. I may not have been doing this for a lifetime, but I know what works for me.
My Shiloh has a Shiloh barrel and my son's rifle has a Badger barrel on them. I am not sure of the differences in the makeup of the rifling, but both rifles will do their part if I do mine, using 30-1 alloy. I, like Gunny and Kelley, am quite confident in that my lead is over 99% pure as well as the tin I use. I have tested both's melting point with an infrared thermometer and they melt EXACTLY at the temp. they are supposed to. This would seem to me to be best indicator of the quality of your alloy.
Have fun developing loads, that is what it is all about.
Oh yes, I really like only sticking two $8.00 sticks of tin in a pot of 60 lbs. of lead instead of three. That means I can go buy another 12 pack.
FWIW, Later, Barvid Dayfield
My Shiloh has a Shiloh barrel and my son's rifle has a Badger barrel on them. I am not sure of the differences in the makeup of the rifling, but both rifles will do their part if I do mine, using 30-1 alloy. I, like Gunny and Kelley, am quite confident in that my lead is over 99% pure as well as the tin I use. I have tested both's melting point with an infrared thermometer and they melt EXACTLY at the temp. they are supposed to. This would seem to me to be best indicator of the quality of your alloy.
Have fun developing loads, that is what it is all about.
Oh yes, I really like only sticking two $8.00 sticks of tin in a pot of 60 lbs. of lead instead of three. That means I can go buy another 12 pack.
FWIW, Later, Barvid Dayfield
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bulldog
- Posts: 269
- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:03 am
- Location: ND
Texas Shooter (I was looking at:
http://www.sagebrushproducts.com/bullets.htm#Jones45001
I am starting my load development, would it be a bad idea to use the match grade, sized, pre-lubed bullets @ $36.00 per 100?)
Get these bullets if you want to be shooting competitively or even decently within the next year ! They are a bargain! Good out to over 1000yds. Otherwise, buy molds, melting pots, lead mixtures, lubes, re-sizers, and ad infinitum not to say hours, days, weeks, months to get a bullet that shoots!
Of course anyone that doesn't make their own cast bullets is a weenie,
inc. some championship shooters, but you don't have to tell.
http://www.sagebrushproducts.com/bullets.htm#Jones45001
I am starting my load development, would it be a bad idea to use the match grade, sized, pre-lubed bullets @ $36.00 per 100?)
Get these bullets if you want to be shooting competitively or even decently within the next year ! They are a bargain! Good out to over 1000yds. Otherwise, buy molds, melting pots, lead mixtures, lubes, re-sizers, and ad infinitum not to say hours, days, weeks, months to get a bullet that shoots!
Of course anyone that doesn't make their own cast bullets is a weenie,
inc. some championship shooters, but you don't have to tell.
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Kelley O. Roos
- Posts: 3430
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:22 pm
- Location: Ca.
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Texas Shooter
- Posts: 1092
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:51 pm
- Location: North Texas
To all:
Thanks to everyone for your advice and ideas.
N2
I agree with you about attending some matches. I will start doing that in the very near future. I am also very glad to hear that their seems to be a number of people interested in this type of competition.
Do you have a web address/web page for the those two matches?
To all:
The PJ 20:1 should be a good starting point. What difference should I see between the 20:1 and the 30:1, all other things being equal?
Given the velocities stay fairly close, should this bullet be good in both the Shiloh 45-70 and the Shiloh 45-110? If so, which ratio would work best. The 20:1 or the 30:1?
Do either of these require wads other than the 060 vegitable wad? That seems to be the most prevelent.
Thanks a Million.
Texas Shooter
Thanks to everyone for your advice and ideas.
N2
I agree with you about attending some matches. I will start doing that in the very near future. I am also very glad to hear that their seems to be a number of people interested in this type of competition.
Do you have a web address/web page for the those two matches?
To all:
The PJ 20:1 should be a good starting point. What difference should I see between the 20:1 and the 30:1, all other things being equal?
Given the velocities stay fairly close, should this bullet be good in both the Shiloh 45-70 and the Shiloh 45-110? If so, which ratio would work best. The 20:1 or the 30:1?
Do either of these require wads other than the 060 vegitable wad? That seems to be the most prevelent.
Thanks a Million.
Texas Shooter
"Aim Small, Miss Small!"