To all accomplished Shiloh Rifle Shooters

[crazeyiven]

[quote="crazeyiven"]Texas Shooter-

As I have been compiling the data so far I was wondering what differentiation you are thinking about between bullet composition and
Ratio of materials. Both of these suggest the alloy composition to me. Want to make sure I classify the data correctly.[/quote]

Texas Shooter-

Posted the above a while back. I did not catch a reply. Did not know if you or I missed it. What are your thoughts? I have added the fields for brass sorting.

Thanks

[Texas Shooter]

Crazyiven:

Sorry about that.

Yes, bullet composition and Ratio of materials would be a great addition for the load specs. From what I have read over this last year, many of the experianced shooters have a definite opinion on what they like and what shoots best in a specific gun.

Have you checked out the string on wheel weights? It's been pretty interesting so far. An aquaintence of mine owns a auto repair shop and I think these people discussing wheel weights have talked me into trying some for fun. If nothing else they would make a good back up if I ran out of everything else to shoot.

The one thing regarding the composition of bullets that seems to be consistant is just that, BE CONSISTANT.

SUCCESSFUL LOADS REQUIRE:

1) CONSISTANT ASSEMBLY- your method of putting all the componants together correctly and consistantly

a) case inspection (Make sure case has been prepared correctly)
b) charge addition (Primer, Drop tube powder, compress powder)
c) wad addition 2 types (over powder, under bullet)
d) addition of bullet (seating depth, final crimp)
e) store finished bullet correctly as to not damage final product (heat, banging around)

2)Componants

a) BULLETS CONSISTANT by weight, size, composition and type and amount of lubrication

b) CHARGE CONSISTANT by amount, type, density (Compression), primer type and lot

c) CASES CONSISTANT by Cleaning, annealing, sizing, type, cracks

d) WADS CONSISTANT type and placement

3) SHOOTERS CONSISTANT IMPUT: Most important and probably most difficult to add correctly, the Shooter must be consistant and well trained in their execution of the shot, and the blow tubing between shots.

This is probably what I will need to work on the most.

I encourage experienced shooters to correct/modify ANY of this, as I am still in the early learning stages.

From what I have gathered, the importance of brass sorting by weight in a current string has been somewhat mixed with a majority saying it doesn't matter. However the same manufacturer of the brass is important and encouraged.

Any thoughts?

Texas Shooter

[Minnesota AL]

Here's some load data that demonstrates the need to get out and shoot, have fun, go to matches and put less emphasis on achieving moa.

Here’s the load I used for the winning score (46 x 48) at the 2004 Quigley. It’s about the same as the load I used for the 2003 Q when I tied for 5th with 40 x 48.

While I’ve had good match results, including a silhouette AA win at the Eastern Regional last September (my second silhouette match), at the 200 yard range the best I get out of this load is 3.5” for 10 shots – and that is the best group of the day. I don’t recall ever getting below 3” for 10 shots, using a multitude of loads.

Gun: Shiloh #1 Sporter, 45-70, half round 30”.
Zika sights front and back. That’s a soule and hood front with spirit level.
Post sight insert. (Other inserts are a rarity).

WW Cases, trimmed to 2.092” or 2.098” (two batches)
Fire formed cases – zero resizing (In 2003 I was neck sizing and flaring)
Cases expanded/flared with std RCBS expander just in case one gets dinged, seems firing does remove the flare also. Cases flared so an empty case meets a very slight resistance when it is fully seated in the chamber.
Flash holes drilled to .096” and deburred (I would not drill out that far if I was doing it again. But some level of drill and deburr needed for uniformity.)
Federal 215 Magnum

Lyman Postell 25:1, 523-524 gr, sized to .459 with Lyman 450.
Black Magic lube. (Used Emmerts formula in 2003)
Match bullets weighed and grouped 523 and 524 gr.
Lighter bullets used for fouling and practice. 516 gr bullets did about as well as match bullets when sighting. When pretty much sighted in I just make it a point to not change the sights based on a miss using a practice/fouling shot. Time to switch to match ammo. Some folks may twitch at these thoughts. But, when I take my 5 worst bullets and hit 5 x 5 while sighting in, I figure, man my match bullets are going to do great.

Swiss 1.5 FG – New lot, don’t have the lot number handy.
63.5 gr by weight (maybe 62.5 gr in 2003 with very little compression)
Volume metered using Belding and Mull. Only weighed a couple charges.
36” drop tube
Walters .06” veggie wad.
Average compression of .14” to a depth .61” below the case mouth (including wad).
Hand seat bullet to 2.895” (chamber will accept an OAL of 2.94”, but bullets at or into the rifling have not given me good results).
No crimp or resizing at all.

[bulldog]

MN Al - Just analyzed your techniques and it seems that you're doing so many thing wrong that you won't shoot a hoot. Maybe you just had a lucky day!

[Tasmanian Rebel]

Congratulations Al. I was there shooting also and a 46 with that tricky E/Se wind was some damn fine shooting. Who was your spotter?, he obviously did a super job too.

[Minnesota AL]

Tas,

My brother spotted for me. He's doing pretty good at it after getting into silhouette and this being our 4th Quigley. We sure could use some quality optics like a Kowa though.

He'll be the first to agree I had a couple lucky hits. The first shot on the Buff put half a bullet on the Buff's face. He was able to see the bullet strike on the marked-up buff because of the strange bullet placement. Without the 3 moa sight correction I would have probably missed the next shot and maybe even another shot if I was questioning the quality of my hold. Another hit was on the upper front leg of the Buff. Irregular shape targets can sometimes help.

Having a spotting board and the target sizes in moa is critical.

[Smokin]

MN Al,

There are two matches at the Gopher range in August: the first weekend is a gong match and the last weekend is the final LR match of the year. Hopefully you will be able to join us. I'll be minding the clock and playing Mother at the LR match. We'll all want to shake your hand in congratulations, hoping that some of your skills and good fortune will rub off.

Smokin

[Minnesota AL]

Smokin,

I've missed so many Harris matches over the last two years some of the guys were wondering if I had moved away. I sure appreciated all the support from the guys at the Quigley. I know folks are always afraid they'll somehow jinx somebody or put undo pressure on them, but I really appreciated the encouragement I received during and after the shoot.

I will try my utmost to attend at least the Buffalo gong match. I have a pile of cartridge cases tied up in Trapdoor loads that I need to free up.

Is there still that real high velocity floor on the LR match. I really didn't like what was going across the chronograph with my duplex loads. I think the SD was over 20. I'm getting about 1140-60 fps with the Swiss loads. I suppose I could get 1180 if I upped the charge quite a bit.

[Texas Shooter]

Minnesota Al:

Thanks for the input, and congratulations on you win at the Quigley this year. Is this an event you will be shooting next year as well?

If you can think of any other information that you think us newbies should know, feel free to to jump in again.

I am please to see you prefer a #1 Shorter, Half round, 45-70. That's what I have coming in in about 25 days.

Guess what load I'm going to try first?

I am going to study your post some more and see if I can gather some more insight.

Once again, Thanks and Congratulations.

Best regards,

Texas Shooter

[Minnesota AL]

Texas,

Don't know if I can make the Q next year. I missed a family (in-laws) get together this year for the Q. Don't know if I can get away with that every year - sure would like to though.

I'm no pro at this competition stuff, so just be careful what you put a lot of stock in.

What does help me, I believe, is an RWS pellet gun (pretty inexpensive model 34 or 36) with a receiver sight and a basement practice range. This year I only got in about 6 sessions before the Q. Before a big shoot I would try to shoot a minimum of 10-15 pellets every night for a month. I have some scaled down silhouette animals on paper for a 33' distance. It's a different trigger pull but I do learn what motion I have - typically I start out real solid (wonder why I didn't pull the trigger), then wave around, then if patient I come back real solid on the target. And I got a couple 30 round sessions with the Shiloh on turkeys off-hand at 200 meters the week before the Q.

Good luck with the new Shiloh.

[Texas Shooter]

Minnesota Al:

Sounds almost like the equivelent of dry firing that we do in action pistol. I KNOW that's good advice. I think that is the first time I have heard it here on this forum.

I will check RWS out.

Thanks a lot.

Texas Shooter

[Omak Cowboy]

Al, that's a great idea.
I live in a "Community' golf course kind of thing where they'd **** green apples if I fired anything beyond a pea shooter - I mean a real straw and real peas! Hoo boy, anyway I too got a comp. grade pellet rifle. Does wonders for off hand.

I'm having a hell of time with my eyes, though and thinking of getting a scope for my 45 - 70. Actually I was thinking of getting a 40 65 in addition to the 45 70.
Anyway, great idea you had.
Omak

[powderburner]

I have worked up a couple loads for the 45-110 they are as follows
in a norma case drop tube 1F into it from 24 inches until it is full wipe it off and compress it with a .30 wad on top until you can seat a PJ Creedmoore bullet in it with all the groves covered and light it up with a Win white box primer
approx 110 gns the other load is BA stretched cases by starline losaded the same way approx 116 gns . both shoot to the same point and are both extremly accurate and clean burning ( two patches and the third is clean )