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Does lube stay on a fired bullet?
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:48 pm
by TexasMac
A shooting friend asked me a question recently that I have no direct evidence to answer. Does any of the lube tend to say on the bullet when it leaves the bore?
At 1200fps out of a 18-twist bore the bullet is spinning at 48,000rpm. Therefore I would expect the relatively soft lube we use will be thrown off immediate as the bullet exists the bore. What do you guys think? I know some of you have collected bullets fired into snow banks. Was there any lube on the bullets?
Wayne
Re: Does lube stay on a fired bullet?
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2022 9:08 pm
by jackrabbit
Nope, no lube left on any bullets I have ever been able to collect. It would be interesting to watch it on a high speed recording though.
Re: Does lube stay on a fired bullet?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:32 am
by gunlaker
I've never seen any on recovered bullets, but back when I used a Shooting Times Chrony, I'd often find globs of lube stuck to the face of it.
Chris.
Re: Does lube stay on a fired bullet?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:29 am
by Etienne Brule
Hi
Those bullets were recovered from the snow, a few winters ago.
1-20 with SPG:
https://shilohrifle.com/forums/download ... d13965f525
Re: Does lube stay on a fired bullet?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:08 am
by TexasMac
Etienne Brule's photo is very interesting & has me wondering how much lube firmness & ambient temperature affects lube release. The question came up due to my friend being concerned about bullet stability if some of the lube stayed on the bullet. When casting we all work at reducing the weight variance as much a possible. Experienced casters are able to keep the variance of those heavy bullets to under +/- 0.5 to 1gr. If Etienne Brule's bullets are typical of the remaining lube down range then the question is how much the weight unbalance & airflow due to the non-uniform lube affects the bullets?
I have been using White Lightening lube ever since it was available from Dan Theodore & still have a bunch. The lube is softer than SPG & some other BPCR lubes & I'm pretty darn sure it's thrown off quickly. Also, all of my shooting has been in the southern states.
I know there are others that have collected fired bullets. I'd sure like to hear from them.
Wayne
Re: Does lube stay on a fired bullet?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:22 am
by Blackstone
TexasMac wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:08 am
Etienne Brule's photo is very interesting & has me wondering how much lube firmness & ambient temperature affects lube release. The question came up due to my friend being concerned about bullet stability if some of the lube stayed on the bullet. When casting we all work at reducing the weight variance as much a possible. Experienced casters are able to keep the variance of those heavy bullets to under +/- 0.5 to 1gr. If Etienne Brule's bullets are typical of the remaining lube down range then the question is how much the weight unbalance & airflow due to the non-uniform lube affects the bullets?
I have been using White Lightening lube ever since it was available from Dan Theodore & still have a bunch. The lube is softer than SPG & some other BPCR lubes & I'm pretty darn sure it's thrown off quickly. Also, all of my shooting has been in the southern states.
I know there are others that have collected fired bullets. I'd sure like to hear from them.
Wayne
I once shot a coyote in Arizona in winter at about 60 yards with a 40-70 , the bullet was lubed with home made lube and not of the lube was still on the bullet it penitrated through the coyote and 6 inches of hard clay/sand of the desert ground . I imediatly added more grease to my lube . If the lube doesn't leave the bullet as I'd passes the muzzle it can't be as accurate as possible . BTW that's just my opinion and you are invited to yours as well .
Re: Does lube stay on a fired bullet?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:34 am
by omgb
So, I'm thinking that ambient temperature will affect the degree to which lube leaves the bullet. The photos are from a winter shoot with snow on the ground. That lube may have been pretty hard. I'd like to see the same bullets, with the same lube, at 90* F ambient temp. I'll bet dimes to donuts there is a difference.
Re: Does lube stay on a fired bullet?
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:57 am
by desert deuce
On those recovered bullets, do I see finning at the base due to contact with the lands?
Re: Does lube stay on a fired bullet?
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:10 pm
by Gamerancher
I have recovered plenty of bullets from a sandbank @200m with lube still in the grooves, ( SPG), when doing load testing and we don't get snow here...
I haven't got any photos so maybe it didn't happen
Perhaps a good way to test the theory of it spinning off when the bullet leaves the muzzle would be to fire a few shots through a length of 6" water pipe?
Re: Does lube stay on a fired bullet?
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:16 pm
by Shadow 4
I also have found bullets with lube still on them, all the way out to 1023.
They weren't mine & they were fired in the hight of summer
Sometimes I find wads at targets also, all flavors
Re: Does lube stay on a fired bullet?
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:38 am
by bobw
I've never had any lube remain on my bpcr bullets winter or summer. The power and ease of shooting paper patch I guess. Bobw
Re: Does lube stay on a fired bullet?
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2022 4:39 pm
by Etienne Brule
Well...
I remember an article written by Lee Shaver a few years ago:
He made an experiment: he took off some lube and fire the bullet: it went like a BIG flyer and no accuracy.
FWIW, the integrity of the lube seems to be important INSIDE the barrel. When outside the barrel, it does not seem to really matter ??
Just an idea !!
Gerald
Re: Does lube stay on a fired bullet?
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:51 pm
by TexasMac
Etienne Brule wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 4:39 pm
Well...
I remember an article written by Lee Shaver a few years ago:
He made an experiment: he took off some lube and fire the bullet: it went like a BIG flyer and no accuracy.
FWIW, the integrity of the lube seems to be important INSIDE the barrel. When outside the barrel, it does not seem to really matter ??
Just an idea !!
Gerald
Gerald,
That sure makes sense. I would expect it to affect the bullet much more in the bore because as the bullet obturates it will fill the missing lube void with lead resulting in an unbalanced bullet. But even if lube coverage is good in the bore it has to affect the bullet some down range if it's not all thrown off, although the down range affect may be minimal. Hence the reason for this thread. Based on the responses so far, whether the lube stays on or not seems to be conditional on lube density & perhaps ambient temperature. Based on what I've read so far I'm sticking with the softest lube that will quickly come off the bullet as it exists the bore. Once I run out of White Lightning I'll likely go to thinned down DGL or SPG.
Wayne
Re: Does lube stay on a fired bullet?
Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:36 pm
by SchuetzenDave
While some of the lube is sloughed off upon firing; not all is removed.
We have used dye in our lube to differentiate our hits from someone else shooting at our target in the Schuetzen game.
It leaves a colored ring around the bullet hole clearly indicating some lube is retained on the bullet.
Of course firing into the snow the snow helps wipe the lube off the bullet so is it lost after firing or after hitting the snow?
Re: Does lube stay on a fired bullet?
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:48 pm
by TexasMac
SchuetzenDave wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:36 pm
While some of the lube is sloughed off upon firing; not all is removed.
We have used dye in our lube to differentiate our hits from someone else shooting at our target in the Schuetzen game.
It leaves a colored ring around the bullet hole clearly indicating some lube is retained on the bullet.
Of course firing into the snow the snow helps wipe the lube off the bullet so is it lost after firing or after hitting the snow?
Dave,
Thanks. What type or types of lube are you guys using & the general range of the ambient temp? I would expect some of the hard lubes used with smokeless to stay on.
Wayne