Patching to groove
- Drahopa7
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:04 am
- Location: Houston, TX
Re: Patching to groove
Hello.
Very new to the pp and shiloh forum.
Bought some moulds from a buddy of mine.
Shooting a 45-90 pedersoli rolling block.
Very accurate with a lyman 45 postell.
Tried some pp rounds
I have 5 moulds.
Started with a brooks mould .442. Patched to .451.
Shot lousy.
I have oldwest .435 adjustable.
I have a baco .441 520gr
R.hoch .443 adjustable
And a lyman ballard .450. Adjustable.
I cleaned them all up and was going to work up some boolits this weekend.
Listening to your advice , should I patch up to .458?
Will these smaller cast bullets patch up to .458?
I was using baco 9lb onion paper that dried to about .009 over.
I can find some thicker paper to fill the gaps.
Any advice will be much appreciated.
Thanks
Very new to the pp and shiloh forum.
Bought some moulds from a buddy of mine.
Shooting a 45-90 pedersoli rolling block.
Very accurate with a lyman 45 postell.
Tried some pp rounds
I have 5 moulds.
Started with a brooks mould .442. Patched to .451.
Shot lousy.
I have oldwest .435 adjustable.
I have a baco .441 520gr
R.hoch .443 adjustable
And a lyman ballard .450. Adjustable.
I cleaned them all up and was going to work up some boolits this weekend.
Listening to your advice , should I patch up to .458?
Will these smaller cast bullets patch up to .458?
I was using baco 9lb onion paper that dried to about .009 over.
I can find some thicker paper to fill the gaps.
Any advice will be much appreciated.
Thanks
A friend offered to trade me a 50-70 trapdoor 10 years ago.
What is a 50-70, I asked wide eyed!
I am still running down that rabbit hole..
Marc M
Houston, Tx
What is a 50-70, I asked wide eyed!
I am still running down that rabbit hole..
Marc M
Houston, Tx
-
- Posts: 2920
- Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:21 pm
- Location: Montana
Re: Patching to groove
The Old West I believe is for a 44.
The other 3 are for patching to bore. Out of my area of experience.
The last one (.450) is for patching to groove but smaller than I use . More in MartiniBelgian or Don's area of expertise.
The other 3 are for patching to bore. Out of my area of experience.
The last one (.450) is for patching to groove but smaller than I use . More in MartiniBelgian or Don's area of expertise.
- desert deuce
- Posts: 3900
- Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:51 pm
- Location: Rio Rico, Arizona
Re: Patching to groove
When you say the Lyman Postel shoot well, can you tell us what that measures and from what distance?
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
- Drahopa7
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:04 am
- Location: Houston, TX
Re: Patching to groove
I am shooting at 100 yards to get consistency in my shooting .
The postell is grouping In a 6" green center.on the target.
I am no sniper , but I could hit a barn.
The postell is grouping In a 6" green center.on the target.
I am no sniper , but I could hit a barn.
A friend offered to trade me a 50-70 trapdoor 10 years ago.
What is a 50-70, I asked wide eyed!
I am still running down that rabbit hole..
Marc M
Houston, Tx
What is a 50-70, I asked wide eyed!
I am still running down that rabbit hole..
Marc M
Houston, Tx
-
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:22 pm
- Location: Newton, Iowa
- Contact:
Re: Patching to groove
If you haven't I would suggest you chamber cast that barrel and see what you have for dimensions. That Pedersoli could easily have a generous free bore that will make bore diameter paper patch bullets an exercise on frustration. If so your options are groove diameter patched to fit the chamber or a dual diameter design that fits your chamber when patched like https://www.buffaloarms.com/452-534-grn ... 2534e.html.
In my opinion that is!
Todd
In my opinion that is!
Todd
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
--Benjamin Franklin
--Benjamin Franklin
- Don McDowell
- Posts: 7649
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:04 pm
- Location: Ft. Laramie Wy
- Contact:
Re: Patching to groove
Best guess would be that .450 diameter bullet wrapped in the 9 lb you have or an 8 lb paper.
Cast it from 20-1 or harder. Load it over a single thick card wad, and wipe between shots.
Cast it from 20-1 or harder. Load it over a single thick card wad, and wipe between shots.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger
- Drahopa7
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:04 am
- Location: Houston, TX
Re: Patching to groove
So I did do a casting .
If I am understanding freebore, I have a .177 from the chamber to the rifling .
My best guess is a 45 degree neck.
The bore is .4497 ( bortowed a machinest pin set )and Groove diameter is .458 on the nose.
I cast the ballad .450 bullets with a concave base.
They are weighing in at 537 gr on average ( poured 20).
Made them out of 1-20 alloy.
So my dumb novist question is when I insert the .458 wrapped bullet, will it get cut up pushing it into the groove?
I wrap against the rifling so the paper unwinds ?
I have read all the good books, and I think it doesn't matter with a micro groove ?
Testing all my assumptions ( fancy way if saying f around and figure it out ) .
Thanks for all the help.
If I am understanding freebore, I have a .177 from the chamber to the rifling .
My best guess is a 45 degree neck.
The bore is .4497 ( bortowed a machinest pin set )and Groove diameter is .458 on the nose.
I cast the ballad .450 bullets with a concave base.
They are weighing in at 537 gr on average ( poured 20).
Made them out of 1-20 alloy.
So my dumb novist question is when I insert the .458 wrapped bullet, will it get cut up pushing it into the groove?
I wrap against the rifling so the paper unwinds ?
I have read all the good books, and I think it doesn't matter with a micro groove ?
Testing all my assumptions ( fancy way if saying f around and figure it out ) .
Thanks for all the help.
A friend offered to trade me a 50-70 trapdoor 10 years ago.
What is a 50-70, I asked wide eyed!
I am still running down that rabbit hole..
Marc M
Houston, Tx
What is a 50-70, I asked wide eyed!
I am still running down that rabbit hole..
Marc M
Houston, Tx
- Don McDowell
- Posts: 7649
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:04 pm
- Location: Ft. Laramie Wy
- Contact:
Re: Patching to groove
you just want to wrap that with two wraps of paper. The diameter is what it will be.
Seat the bullet deep enough in the case that it will chamber with a slight bit of thumb pressure. The paper should come out in confetti strips when the bullet exits the barrel. It won't matter which way you wrap the bullet, just wrap it in the direction it's comfortable to you. Keep the width of the patch to short of the ogive, and don't twist the tails. Just fold the paper over the base, so it looks sort of like a crimp on a shotgun shell.
Seat the bullet deep enough in the case that it will chamber with a slight bit of thumb pressure. The paper should come out in confetti strips when the bullet exits the barrel. It won't matter which way you wrap the bullet, just wrap it in the direction it's comfortable to you. Keep the width of the patch to short of the ogive, and don't twist the tails. Just fold the paper over the base, so it looks sort of like a crimp on a shotgun shell.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger
- Drahopa7
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:04 am
- Location: Houston, TX
Re: Patching to groove
That all makes sense.
Awesome.
Now I have enough info to make myself dangerous.
Thanks again for filling in the missing gaps.
Let you know how my trial run goes.
Awesome.
Now I have enough info to make myself dangerous.
Thanks again for filling in the missing gaps.
Let you know how my trial run goes.
A friend offered to trade me a 50-70 trapdoor 10 years ago.
What is a 50-70, I asked wide eyed!
I am still running down that rabbit hole..
Marc M
Houston, Tx
What is a 50-70, I asked wide eyed!
I am still running down that rabbit hole..
Marc M
Houston, Tx
-
- Posts: 1611
- Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:20 pm
Re: Patching to groove
And don't forget to wipe between shots!
- Drahopa7
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:04 am
- Location: Houston, TX
Re: Patching to groove
My mom brought me up right.
I always wipe between shots.
I am using baco wipers and m-pro-7.
Done my homework, gotta pass the test now.
I always wipe between shots.
I am using baco wipers and m-pro-7.
Done my homework, gotta pass the test now.
A friend offered to trade me a 50-70 trapdoor 10 years ago.
What is a 50-70, I asked wide eyed!
I am still running down that rabbit hole..
Marc M
Houston, Tx
What is a 50-70, I asked wide eyed!
I am still running down that rabbit hole..
Marc M
Houston, Tx
-
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Re: Patching to groove
Drahopa7 you may want to look in to getting some of these they work really well ( Delrin Bore Wipers ) Eric does really great work
-
- Posts: 432
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:06 pm
Re: Patching to groove
BACO bore wipers with M-Pro7 is an excellent choice. Many matches are won by shooters using them.
No need to change to something else before getting your other issues sorted out.
No need to change to something else before getting your other issues sorted out.
-
- Posts: 2920
- Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:21 pm
- Location: Montana
Re: Patching to groove
Couple thing to watch for and experiment with.
Lip peening. Make sure you don't have a sharp lip on the inside of the case to tear the paper. ( Usually caused by tumbling brass)
Case length. The closer you can get to touching the transition with the end of the case the better it will be.
Internal case smoothness. Case should be smooth near the mouth.
Annealing. Find what works for you. I prefer ever time and polish internally after annealing
Internal case to external patch fit. I prefer a smooth fit not to tight and not too loose. My cases bump the transition every firing so I have to run an expander die in my case ever reloading.
Patch length. I prefer a hole the size of a pencil eraser where the patch is folded under but wind up with primer sized hole frequently.
How far up on the side of the bullet you patch depends on a lot of variables. Alloy, amount of powder etc.
Oal.
I prefer to cam my shells in at least 1/16 inch. But not possible on some guns. Something you will have to experiment with.
But I would at least make up a dummy round that has to be cammed in 1/8 inch. That way you can remove it and look at the paper. You should see rifling marks but no tears.
Lot more you get to experiment with. Just have fun.
Lip peening. Make sure you don't have a sharp lip on the inside of the case to tear the paper. ( Usually caused by tumbling brass)
Case length. The closer you can get to touching the transition with the end of the case the better it will be.
Internal case smoothness. Case should be smooth near the mouth.
Annealing. Find what works for you. I prefer ever time and polish internally after annealing
Internal case to external patch fit. I prefer a smooth fit not to tight and not too loose. My cases bump the transition every firing so I have to run an expander die in my case ever reloading.
Patch length. I prefer a hole the size of a pencil eraser where the patch is folded under but wind up with primer sized hole frequently.
How far up on the side of the bullet you patch depends on a lot of variables. Alloy, amount of powder etc.
Oal.
I prefer to cam my shells in at least 1/16 inch. But not possible on some guns. Something you will have to experiment with.
But I would at least make up a dummy round that has to be cammed in 1/8 inch. That way you can remove it and look at the paper. You should see rifling marks but no tears.
Lot more you get to experiment with. Just have fun.
-
- Posts: 2920
- Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:21 pm
- Location: Montana
Re: Patching to groove
Oh. And wrap the patch which ever way is most comfortable to you.