Patching to groove
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:46 pm
I spent a lot of time the last couple months going thru the archives of Shiloh and other BP forums looking at Paper Patch threads.
One common thread I saw was someone new to paper patching coming on a site and saying they had a PP mould that threw a bullet of a given dia ( .450-.454) and wondering if they could patch them up and shoot them.
Of course the most common answer was, “you need a bullet between .444 and 446 for it to work”
which is fair enough advice for someone starting out with no mould. There are a lot more data, resources and people shooting that style to get advice from.
However, if someone already has a mould, there is no reason not to try it, and expect good results
The second most common answer was, “you have to have one that is about .450 and patched to .457 so it isn’t too tight in the barrel which would squish the paper to much and cause finning”.
All of this without asking what the barrel/chamber dimensions are and whether or not it has any significant amount of freebore.
Of course everyone knows you have to have a special PP chamber to shoot paper patch bullets, a standard one with a 45º transition just wouldn’t work so they were just SOL if they had a standard chamber.
I thought I’d share a few of my experiences with Patching to Groove for the last 10+/- years.
My .454 dia moulds have shot well in the 4 different rifles.
A Browning 45-90 with a 12.75º transition, a .150 long freebore
A Browning 45-110 with a custom barrel with 45º transition and no freebore
A Wesson #1 45-100 with a 45º transition and approx.2 freebore
and a Shiloh 45-70 that I never did a chamber cast on.
I used 12.5-1 alloy and Staedtler 8 lb paper with black Powder in 3 of them and an antimony alloy with BH209 and 8 lb Staedtler paper in the Shiloh. The only requirement was that the dry wrapped bullet fit smoothly in the unsized case. I never took into consideration the groove dia of the barrel when making the loads.
The one gun the .454 mould does not work in is the Bull Barrel Shiloh 45 2 7/8. The chamber is just small enough that I can’t seat the bullet in a fired case. I bought a .452 sizer die but it only reduces the bullet to .453 and I can just barely get a bullet seated with 7 lb paper and then run thru a 459 sizer. A.458 sizer tears the paper. Even loading it that closed to the edge, it shoots very well with its 45º transition.
I have no experience with .450 or .451 moulds, but they are not a requirement as stated by some earlier, altho they should perform reasonably well when patched with thicker paper, or used when little or no fouling control is needed for hunting.
Others may have completely different experiences, but those are mine. Hopefully Gert chimes in with some of his experiences with different size bullets/patches since we seem to be the only two still shooting Groove dia bullets as our SOP.
One common thread I saw was someone new to paper patching coming on a site and saying they had a PP mould that threw a bullet of a given dia ( .450-.454) and wondering if they could patch them up and shoot them.
Of course the most common answer was, “you need a bullet between .444 and 446 for it to work”
which is fair enough advice for someone starting out with no mould. There are a lot more data, resources and people shooting that style to get advice from.
However, if someone already has a mould, there is no reason not to try it, and expect good results
The second most common answer was, “you have to have one that is about .450 and patched to .457 so it isn’t too tight in the barrel which would squish the paper to much and cause finning”.
All of this without asking what the barrel/chamber dimensions are and whether or not it has any significant amount of freebore.
Of course everyone knows you have to have a special PP chamber to shoot paper patch bullets, a standard one with a 45º transition just wouldn’t work so they were just SOL if they had a standard chamber.
I thought I’d share a few of my experiences with Patching to Groove for the last 10+/- years.
My .454 dia moulds have shot well in the 4 different rifles.
A Browning 45-90 with a 12.75º transition, a .150 long freebore
A Browning 45-110 with a custom barrel with 45º transition and no freebore
A Wesson #1 45-100 with a 45º transition and approx.2 freebore
and a Shiloh 45-70 that I never did a chamber cast on.
I used 12.5-1 alloy and Staedtler 8 lb paper with black Powder in 3 of them and an antimony alloy with BH209 and 8 lb Staedtler paper in the Shiloh. The only requirement was that the dry wrapped bullet fit smoothly in the unsized case. I never took into consideration the groove dia of the barrel when making the loads.
The one gun the .454 mould does not work in is the Bull Barrel Shiloh 45 2 7/8. The chamber is just small enough that I can’t seat the bullet in a fired case. I bought a .452 sizer die but it only reduces the bullet to .453 and I can just barely get a bullet seated with 7 lb paper and then run thru a 459 sizer. A.458 sizer tears the paper. Even loading it that closed to the edge, it shoots very well with its 45º transition.
I have no experience with .450 or .451 moulds, but they are not a requirement as stated by some earlier, altho they should perform reasonably well when patched with thicker paper, or used when little or no fouling control is needed for hunting.
Others may have completely different experiences, but those are mine. Hopefully Gert chimes in with some of his experiences with different size bullets/patches since we seem to be the only two still shooting Groove dia bullets as our SOP.