Powder size versus velocity

Discussions of powders, bullets and loading information.

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JonnyV
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Powder size versus velocity

Post by JonnyV »

Hey everybody, I’ve been told that your velocity will go up slightly if you move to a smaller granulation of powder. For instance, 2F might shoot a little bit faster than 1.5 F… Does the same hold true for 3F? Is anybody here tried 3F in a 45-90 or 45-100? What were your results? Thanks for any help!
High Desert Hunter
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Re: Powder size versus velocity

Post by High Desert Hunter »

While I only have a 45 2.1", I found that FFFg gave me more fouling than FFg, so I switched to all FFg. I know it may be apples to oranges, but it was my experience. The increase in velocity was not worth it.
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JonnyV
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Re: Powder size versus velocity

Post by JonnyV »

HDH, I assume that you’re wiping between each shot correct? What is the fouling reaching a point where the wipers were having a hard time controlling it?
Tomklinger
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Re: Powder size versus velocity

Post by Tomklinger »

JonnyV
I shoot an original Ballard #7 long range, 44/100. 535gr. paper patched bullet. I get my highest velocity, least fouling, lowest S.D. with uncompressed 1f Swiss….1360fps.
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desert deuce
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Re: Powder size versus velocity

Post by desert deuce »

There you go Tom, divulging that Top Secret information again.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
Tomklinger
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Re: Powder size versus velocity

Post by Tomklinger »

D.D.
It probably went over his head anyway :wink:
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JonnyV
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Re: Powder size versus velocity

Post by JonnyV »

Yup sure did…
semtav
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Re: Powder size versus velocity

Post by semtav »

JonnyV wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:11 am Yup sure did…
You got to watch out for that DD feller, he's a crafty one claiming that knowledge as his own.

If I remember in my research of his past, he liked that fff. Course it could have been my triple vision playing tricks on me.
VBull
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Re: Powder size versus velocity

Post by VBull »

I seem to remember case stretching up to mid case separations when using 3F in the larger cases and bottlenecks.
It does okay in straight 38's. My wife's 38-55 shoots fine with 3f, never had a separation or cracked case.
I've seen quite a few .45-70's at long range matches where there were separations using 3f trying to get some more velocity.
SFogler
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Re: Powder size versus velocity

Post by SFogler »

Probably the better question would be to ask the top five shooters in BPTR what powder they use. Look at the match results and ask those guys what they use to win. Velocity for the sake of velocity doesn't always equate to the most accurate load. Making it go faster doesn't always mean you'll make it more accurate. In a 45-90 or 45-100 you have enough case to develop an accurate load with whatever powder works.
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JonnyV
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Re: Powder size versus velocity

Post by JonnyV »

SFogler wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 12:18 am Probably the better question would be to ask the top five shooters in BPTR what powder they use. Look at the match results and ask those guys what they use to win. Velocity for the sake of velocity doesn't always equate to the most accurate load. Making it go faster doesn't always mean you'll make it more accurate. In a 45-90 or 45-100 you have enough case to develop an accurate load with whatever powder works.

All excellent points. We’re not pursuing velocity just for velocity sake, rather doing an experiment trying to observe the transonic phase of flight. Our bullets go transonic very quickly after leaving the muzzle. Even back when I shot smokeless powder and was running 1425 ft./s. The bullet would go transonic within 300 yards.

Might lead to nothing, but there could be some information there worth learning.
SchuetzenDave
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Re: Powder size versus velocity

Post by SchuetzenDave »

I used Swiss FFFg in both my .40-65 and .40-60 Maynard rifles with 30" barrels.

Generally going from 1.5 F to 3 F can increase velocities by 10%.

I never had fouling problems using Swiss FFFg using a good quality lube and with ensuring I properly blew down my barrel between shots.
I used Alberta Schuetzen Lube.

I believe you get more fouling from the incompletely burned large granules whereas the finer powder completely burns in the barrel providing more pressure.
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JonnyV
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Re: Powder size versus velocity

Post by JonnyV »

SchuetzenDave wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:49 pm I used Swiss FFFg in both my .40-65 and .40-60 Maynard rifles with 30" barrels.

Generally going from 1.5 F to 3 F can increase velocities by 10%.

I never had fouling problems using Swiss FFFg using a good quality lube and with ensuring I properly blew down my barrel between shots.
I used Alberta Schuetzen Lube.

I believe you get more fouling from the incompletely burned large granules whereas the finer powder completely burns in the barrel providing more pressure.

Thanks for reading the original question Dave! Now, have you tried different bullet weights with these powders? Weee the results consistent?
SchuetzenDave
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Re: Powder size versus velocity

Post by SchuetzenDave »

I used a 410 grain Boomer Money and a 422 grain Paul Jones Creedmoor in both the calibers using the same amount of Swiss FFFg.
The heavier 422 grain Paul Jones had more Kinetic Energy from being heavier (less susceptible to wind drift) plus this Creedmoor bullet had better dynamic stability resulting in it getting a bit more accuracy at longer distances (over 500 yards).

The straighter walled .40-60 Maynard had better bullet concentricity in the straighter case and the Paul Jones Creedmore bullet was more successful knocking down Rams.

However both were very effective of shooting tight groups at 800 meters.
SchuetzenDave
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Re: Powder size versus velocity

Post by SchuetzenDave »

Also to achieve good accuracy with the Money bullet at the longer ranges with it's poorer dynamic stability I had to get the velocities up to 1250 FPS or more.
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