PP Barrel length and foaling?

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bohemianway
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PP Barrel length and foaling?

Post by bohemianway »

So, it seems the general consensus is that 30" is easy for foaling control, 32" so-so, and 34" a bit of a pain (I think this was the general opinion for GG). But what about for PP (bore rider or Groove)? BTW calibers under consideration are 45-90 or 50-90 (and does Shiloh have PP specific chambers for either of those?). The reason is that, for grins I have on order a 25lb, 34" in 50-90 (as a place holder, I know of a 44-90 and 45-90 in originals, are there other original cals.?). What would be the funnest caliber for a rifle that recoil is not a major issue and bench rest the only option?

A curious mind wants to know,
Charles
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Don McDowell
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Re: PP Barrel length and foaling?

Post by Don McDowell »

Shiloh's standard chamber shoots paper patch just fine. The thing you would have to satisfy in your mind, is if you did do a "paper patch" chamber do you want to limit yourself to having to use patched bullets in the event you should want to go with grease groove?
I like the 32 inch barrels. The 34 inch barrels are fine, but the fouling does tend to get harder in the last 2 inches of the barrel.
45-70 is about as close to a do it all cartridge as there is, but the 45-90 is a close second. But neither one has the appeal to me as the 44-77.

Go with you gut on the first rifle, then you can explore other options on the following orders.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
semtav
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Re: PP Barrel length and foaling?

Post by semtav »

You might consider a 45 2 7/8.
If you want original calibers. The 2 7/8 is only second to the 45-70 in number of shells we've found over the years on our place from Buffalo Hunters.

I bought a bull barrel Shiloh in 45 2 7/8 with a 30" barrel for that very reason and now I'm kicking myself for not going 32"

I don't have a lot of experience with shooting in 100 deg wx and low humidity but we had 105+ deg and single digit humidity in a 2 day shoot over labor day weekend and I never had an issue with fouling in a 34" 45-110 for 100+ rounds shooting paper patch.
ian45662
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Re: PP Barrel length and foaling?

Post by ian45662 »

My highest and most consistent scores in silhouette and long range have been with a 32” 45-70. With the Gophers I use fouling is no issue. If I use Swiss that is.
mike herth
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Re: PP Barrel length and foaling?

Post by mike herth »

Brian,
Please describe your fouling control process for that 100 round Labor Day shoot.
semtav
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Re: PP Barrel length and foaling?

Post by semtav »

Mike
Being a naturally messy person, I don't like to get chemicals all over my shooting stuff, so I've just gone back to Brent's recommendation and poured bottled water over my box of homemade borepigs.

For the first relay before it became unbearably hot, I just ran a borepig and dry patch down the bore at the same time. That's all.

Then for the next three relays I ran the straight water soaked borepig and a barely damp patch of 11-1 Napa cutting oil that I had made up early in the spring down the bore together and followed them with a dry patch.

All the patches were the 3" hex from sagebrush pushed with a brass jag.

If I was shooting anywhere near Desert Deuce territory, I'd probably swap the damp Napa patch for one with M-pro, but I'll stick with pure water pigs.

Kim W also shot Paperpatch at that match and didn't have any fouling issues that I remember, but he used a different method.

He also got second overall doing it.
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desert deuce
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Re: PP Barrel length and foaling?

Post by desert deuce »

FWIW: Desert Deuce has transitioned to a 1-10 mix of cutting oil to distilled water on the damp (not wet) 2.25" square cotton patch chasing the BACO Bore wipe (2 felts moderately dipped in Mpro7 cleaner) and not following the damp patch with anything, just chamber swab load and shoot. .44-90 & 45-90 class cartridges. (swiss)

As long as you are getting a little squirt of fluid in front of the bore wipe as it exits the muzzle you are OK. The Windex with Vinegar on a wet cotton patch works for taking the hard fouling residue from the underside of the muzzle and barrel after shooting. Don't be discouraged if your first cleaning patch of the bore after the string of fire comes out lead free and nearly clean. 8) That's OK, I have learned to live with it. :wink: You can too.

IFFFFFFF, that following damp patch looks unnecessarily dirty as it exits the muzzle I just run a second bore wipe and chaser patch, (THAT HAPPENED ONLY ONCE AND WITH RED CAN GOEX 2fg) Make certain the patch clears the muzzle and out as for some reason it does tend to hang up there.

REMINDER: If shooting in the open unshaded at 100F single digit humidity, the shooting mat, rifle and rifleman will be subjected to radiant heating and internal barrel temperatures that will rise significantly and sharply. It is just as important to maintain hydration of the rifleman as it is to deal with barrel fouling and egg frying mat heat.

PS-I quit soaking the felts a long time ago.

PSS - Run the bore wipe asap after firing the shot. Don't let it further dry out in the bore.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
semtav
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Re: PP Barrel length and foaling?

Post by semtav »

You gotta be careful following DDs advice.
He smears that greasy stuff all over his bullets, so it probably takes a little extra cleaning to get that all out of the bore before the next shot. 🥃
mike herth
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Re: PP Barrel length and foaling?

Post by mike herth »

Thanks Brian.
I now have 50 bore pigs ready for the season. Now if it will warm up a bit so I can start casting bullets I’ll feel better.

Kim, care to share your process from the Labor Day shoot since you shot PP as well?
gunlaker
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Re: PP Barrel length and foaling?

Post by gunlaker »

A 34" 25lb gun is going to be very heavy.

Kenny W. had his at 34" and cut it down to 30" but I don't remember why.

I have some bull barreled Shilohs. My very favorite is a 30" 14 pounder chambered in the .45-2-7/8" case. With paper patched bullets and 105gr of Fg I swear the recoil isn't any more unpleasant than my 11lb 45-70.

I also have a 16lb .45-100 with a 30" barrel. It soaks up recoil nicely. I haven't used that one as much as the 14 pounder but I'm sure I'll get acquainted with it.

The bull barrel guns are nice because they sit super steady in the cross sticks. But they are heavy enough that if your cross sticks aren't set in pretty deeply they'll push those sticks around quite a bit on recoil.

As far as fouling goes I wouldn't be afraid of a 32" barrel. I also like the 34" barrels but not for anything that might involve offhand. As far as I remember DD has beaten a lot of folks with his 34" barrels :-).

I have shot twice in Desert Deuce land. The both with 32" barrels. The first time I fouled out so badly that the only way to recover would have been to screw on a new barrel between targets :-). That was 100% user error. When I came back the next year I had zero troubles. My Borchardt got so hot that I could feel the barrel heat through the wood forearm. The gun still shot extremely well with no bad fouling. The key was to not mechanically push 2 patches between shots and then shoot again, but to look at the patches and if they weren't coming out clean then to put another one down. Sometimes you can see the effect of fouling by loosing a little vertical on the target. Jimbo Terry taught me that. If your impacts start dropping a little for no reason you can see in the wind, push a couple more patches down the barrel. Some of the best advice I've had, and I've been given some pretty good advice by some pretty talented riflemen!

Chris.
semtav
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Re: PP Barrel length and foaling?

Post by semtav »

In Case anyone thinks I'm trashing DD, I am, but only cause I have free reign to do so for at least another month.

That and a hint that those work with our loads in our guns how we shoot.
Change anything, the bullet, the powder, even the barrel alloy and you may find it doesn't.
bohemianway
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Re: PP Barrel length and foaling?

Post by bohemianway »

semtav,

What is strange is my Fort Griffin shipped 16lbr was originally barreled as a 14lb 45 2 7/8 and within a year sent back to Sharps' for the now 30" 16lb 50-90. Kinda backwards from what is generally accepted as the progression from big 50's to the 45 calibers.

Charles
semtav
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Re: PP Barrel length and foaling?

Post by semtav »

Interesting
Nobody in our family has found a 50-90 case .
A few 50-70 tho.
One 45 2.6,
And quite a few 45-75 cases but they may have come later. They are a darker smoother patina.
semtav
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Re: PP Barrel length and foaling?

Post by semtav »

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