Shiloh Rifle Forums

Hello everyone! Been awhile since I logged in but been doing alot of reading, etc. Recently, I purchased a Sharps #3 w/16lb. bull bbl. In the 45-100 (2.6) unfired built in 2011 also, received factory letter. Anyway, been experimenting on some dummy reloads (for smokeless) but found out they won't chamber going by recommend coal (I understand the bbls. normally are .450/.458 and letter doesn't mention a chamber option and there's no leade). So, I picked a dummy load by Lyman manual of a 535 .458 postell at 3.55 coal and its a no go the base sticks out about .250+/-. So, since I was looking for a trial smokeless load of 5744 that coal wouldn't work and seating the bullet further in is not good with smokeless! So, after further examination trying different things I've about decided after doing some further reading I may be going with/Swiss 1.5 at a start of 80 gn and a 500gn paper patch to just touch the lands. I've been looking at the BACO .442 500gn, 9lb. Paper (.002) .060 veg wad? at 80gn load. Now questions:
1- Would that load be a slight compression making sure of no air space? Also, would like to seat bullet by hand.

2-Bullet seated to just touch the lands as long as the coal is ok with this particular load?

3-With bullet of .442 and 2 wraps of BACO paper looks like it would wind up .448- .449. Also, will decide a small amount of lube on patch?

4- Cleanup after shooting but in reading there are countless ways to do it!

Have reloaded since 1968 off and on from 9mm-50BMG but haven't messed with BP except an old Maridian 12ga. double in 1969 using FFG.

Any suggestions, am I crazy, an idiot, moron or just plain brain dead? OK, set me straight I've got my safety glasses on and my steel helmet on for most incoming crowbars!

You're 'rite' on all counts
Match grade BP loading is the PHD of reloading education

What is the diameter of the nose on your bullet? The bull barreled rifles have slightly tighter bores than the standard & heavy barrels. You shouldn't see any engraving on the nose of the bullet.

Don't worry about what the overall length you find in a book. Seat the bullet out so it barely touches the lands. If it sits too deeply in the case then the bullet is the problem. If not then the bullet nose is being deformed in the loading process, or your cartridges are too large in diameter at the neck. This later problem is common for people new to Shiloh rifles. My bull barrel .45 cal Shilohs will only slip fit a .458" bullet. Bigger than that and they won't chamber. Be wary of any excessive belling of the case mouth or anything that can enlarge the dimensions at the case mouth. These rifles are built to tight tolerances, that's why they shoot so good.

As far as throats go, all of the Shiloh chambers are pretty similar in design unless the rifle was built with a 7 degree leade or the Orville Loomer chamber.

To give you a base idea on overall length, in my 16lb bull barrel .45-100 using a BACO 458535M1 bullet, I seat them to 3.441" which just touches the lands.

Chris.

80 grs sounds limp as hell I use that much in my 45-'70. Put enough powder in it and a hard card over the powder then a grease wad followed by another card.you should only have your bullet seated up against that wad an 1/8 to 3/16" total seating depth. The rest of that patched bullet will be in the barrel. .442" wrapped in 9lb will give you .449". You need to wipe every shot. If you decide to not use a grease wad you'll need atleast 2 card wads or some other combination. The idea is simple your barrel is the finest in line seater there is and the bullet will bump up to fill the grooves..bobw

By the way, congrats on your new purchase. I also have a #3 bull barrel but a 14 pound barrel in .45-2-7/8". I pretty much shoot loads I stole from Kenny Wasserburger. If I were to shoot PP in my .45-2.6" I would start by loading them in the same way. I'd advise reading all of his earlier stuff. Maybe around 2010 and up. It's worth the time spent.

Chris.

Chris is right about the overall length on your rifle, you''re probably trying to seat to long. Find the seating depth that will just chamber and then figure out how much space you'll need to fill with powder and a .060 fiber wad, probably going to end up around 87 grains.
Paper patch bullet keep the length at 1.42 1.45 and might think about a diameter pre patched at .444-446. Wrap it in SC 55w, seat it on top of a poly wad and a felt wad.

my 100 shot a 516gr PPB with 108.5gr of 1.5F swiss. Bore dia on bullet is .443 wrapped with .002 strathmore paper, it was only .100 in the case though. Id find what seat depth works with the bullet your choosing to use, then measure that depth. fill the case (thru a drop tube) to that point with powder, add a .060 wad and compress the powder to your needed bullet depth, hand seat your bullet. Try and use as little crimp as possible, none is best. That should give you .060 compression, I find that .085-.095ish works very well in most rifles. Just keep adding a couple grains until you find the sweet spot.

You may have a PP chamber in that rifle as well, a chamber cast will tell you everything you need to know!!

If Shiloh made it with a pp chamber they mark it so on the bottom flat of the barrel under the forend. Or fire a round thru it, the fired dia. of a 45 case with a tight chamber will be .473 to .474". A .458" greaser seated in the case will not chamber in an original style tight chamber. Bobw

BlackJack wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:50 pm HSo, I picked a dummy load by Lyman manual of a 535 .458 postell at 3.55 coal and its a no go the base sticks out about .250+/-.

The bull barrels have a slightly tighter chamber than normal shiloh barrels.
Take a case and fill it with black powder and put a couple wads on it, or put some smokeless and cornmeal in and a wad on top and fire it.
then, the largest bullet that fits in that fireformed case is as large as you can use in that gun with that brass unless you ream or turn the brass neck down.
also pay attention to the lip of the case and see that it is not pinched in indicating slightly too long of brass.

Edit (As I see bobw also said)

gunlaker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:05 pm What is the diameter of the nose on your bullet? The bull barreled rifles have slightly tighter bores than the standard & heavy barrels. You shouldn't see any engraving on the nose of the bullet.

Don't worry about what the overall length you find in a book. Seat the bullet out so it barely touches the lands. If it sits too deeply in the case then the bullet is the problem. If not then the bullet nose is being deformed in the loading process, or your cartridges are too large in diameter at the neck. This later problem is common for people new to Shiloh rifles. My bull barrel .45 cal Shilohs will only slip fit a .458" bullet. Bigger than that and they won't chamber. Be wary of any excessive belling of the case mouth or anything that can enlarge the dimensions at the case mouth. These rifles are built to tight tolerances, that's why they shoot so good.

As far as throats go, all of the Shiloh chambers are pretty similar in design unless the rifle was built with a 7 degree leade or the Orville Loomer chamber.

To give you a base idea on overall length, in my 16lb bull barrel .45-100 using a BACO 458535M1 bullet, I seat them to 3.441" which just touches the lands.

Chris.

Hello Chris, thanks for the help! the dia. at the grease groves is .458 and just at the Ogive is .449 it is a Postell. Also, my factory letter doesn't mention anything about a custom chamber.

bobw wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:08 pm 80 grs sounds limp as hell I use that much in my 45-'70. Put enough powder in it and a hard card over the powder then a grease wad followed by another card.you should only have your bullet seated up against that wad an 1/8 to 3/16" total seating depth. The rest of that patched bullet will be in the barrel. .442" wrapped in 9lb will give you .449". You need to wipe every shot. If you decide to not use a grease wad you'll need atleast 2 card wads or some other combination. The idea is simple your barrel is the finest in line seater there is and the bullet will bump up to fill the grooves..bobw

Hello bobw, thanks for the info! the 80gn was a beginning load I read. I would like to seat the bullet by hand firmly on the wad. The .442 was what I was considering w/2wraps of 9lb. onion paper. A veg wad and a grease wad sounds good!

gunlaker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:10 pm By the way, congrats on your new purchase. I also have a #3 bull barrel but a 14 pound barrel in .45-2-7/8". I pretty much shoot loads I stole from Kenny Wasserburger. If I were to shoot PP in my .45-2.6" I would start by loading them in the same way. I'd advise reading all of his earlier stuff. Maybe around 2010 and up. It's worth the time spent.

Chris.

I've seen some posts of Wasserburger will have to figure out to look up his older posts on the subject

Don McDowell wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:17 pm Chris is right about the overall length on your rifle, you''re probably trying to seat to long. Find the seating depth that will just chamber and then figure out how much space you'll need to fill with powder and a .060 fiber wad, probably going to end up around 87 grains.
Paper patch bullet keep the length at 1.42 1.45 and might think about a diameter pre patched at .444-446. Wrap it in SC 55w, seat it on top of a poly wad and a felt wad.

Hello Don, thanks for the info! I was using a case with slightly expanded neck (case only fit fine) ran it in chamber and pushed till seated then pulled out gently and measured it went from 3.55 to 3.04 ( if I remember right) the bullet was deep was above the top guide ring! Bullet was 1.412 in length. Poly wad like BACO has? the felt wad like a veg wad they show? the paper 55W??

bpcr shooter wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:13 am my 100 shot a 516gr PPB with 108.5gr of 1.5F swiss. Bore dia on bullet is .443 wrapped with .002 strathmore paper, it was only .100 in the case though. Id find what seat depth works with the bullet your choosing to use, then measure that depth. fill the case (thru a drop tube) to that point with powder, add a .060 wad and compress the powder to your needed bullet depth, hand seat your bullet. Try and use as little crimp as possible, none is best. That should give you .060 compression, I find that .085-.095ish works very well in most rifles. Just keep adding a couple grains until you find the sweet spot.

You may have a PP chamber in that rifle as well, a chamber cast will tell you everything you need to know!!

Hello bpcr shooter! thanks for the info! Will make note of the specs you mentioned. As far as PPB chamber my factory letter doesn't mention a custom chamber it just appears to be tight!

bobw wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:39 am If Shiloh made it with a pp chamber they mark it so on the bottom flat of the barrel under the forend. Or fire a round thru it, the fired dia. of a 45 case with a tight chamber will be .473 to .474". A .458" greaser seated in the case will not chamber in an original style tight chamber. Bobw

Hello again bobw I've had the forearm off but didn't notice anything stamped but when I get a chance I'll remove it again and see what's lirking under the oil!