Shiloh Rifle Forums

It’s over and appears to have been another success! And no 100 degree days! If I’m reading the results correctly it appears the top 5 shooters in the Creedmoor are the same top 5 overall for the Ironman, although in different order.

I’m wondering if the shooter/spotter teams were the same throughout, and who they were. The lower Creedmoor scores clearly show the advantage of having a spotter making wind calls. I’m intrigued by the Rifleman Class shooters who shot without spotters throughout all the matches, making one’s own wind calls seems like the ultimate test of skill.

I hope we’ll see some narratives from the shooters soon describing who, what, how. Please!

Well, it was a dark and stormy night.....
No, wait.

Some days it was 20 mph gusting to 30+, and some folks had to sight on the next target upwind because their sight didn't have enough windage travel. The pickups and letoffs were enough to push you way off the target if you didn't notice it, and happened fast.

I had a great time, and am sorry for the ones who missed it!

But more narrative from me will have to wait untill I have a keyboard, rather than typing one letter at a time on my phone.

Aviator is still, "on the road again", winding his way back to Indiana with stops along the way.
It may be a case of they will get there when they get there?

DD, I understand you asked BACO to make the bevel base Postel mold. How did that bullet work for you for long range? And at what rate of twist?

Aviator is due back in Southern Indiana on Thursday, just in time for supper and a campfire in prep for the matches on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

I guess he is not shot out yet.

Woody

Still have some ammunition left!

Mike Herth, actually I have two separate more or less one off, at the beginning, moulds on my bench from Jim Brannon at BACO.
One is a copy of the original Ideal 456132 which is bevel based you are inquiring about. The idea was/is to evaluate both for Long Range.

The original Ideal 456132 was apparently created toward the end of the Creedmoor era in the 1800's and available on special order until the 1970's from Lyman. Samples from an original Lyman Mould were sent to BACO to cut a duplicate mould. Why the bevel base is subject to speculation that, on this forum, by consensus finally might conclude that the bullet was intended for later field artillery uses so I won't go there.

The logistic problem continued, seeming indefinitely, due to heavy equipment activity on all ranges at Tucson Rifle Club right up until I left for Phoenix March 22nd. Lamentable situation to say the least.

So, while both have been through initial scrutiny on paper and steel at mid range distances, long range evaluation has not been possible. (The second one off was hugely impressive in ladder load development at 200 yards.)

With that said, ("INITIAL"), results with both are encouraging at the powder burn distances normally available on a silhouette range which, by experience, do not always agree with results from 800 yards and beyond.

At present the probability that both bullets will be shot in both 16 & 18 twist rifles with 1-16 alloy is high.

As you peruse the final results keep in mind that both DD and Aviator were campaigning new rifles that neither of them had been able to work with very much at all prior to arrival at Ben Avery range last month. MOREOVER, Aviator built his rifle at his home shop in Indiana featuring a Douglas barrel and MVA Hi-Wall action that propelled a, new to him and first long range session, BACO bullet. DD was working with a new, perhaps last King made, John King Hi-Wall featuring an MVA Hi Wall action and Douglas barrel also and launching a proven BACO bullet, (459542M3).

It is vitally important to know and understand that the foundational purpose of the Desert International event is to provide a high quality shooting experience that is fun and meaningful for the shooters to participate in. That being the case DD & Aviator, as it is intended to be, brought their new thundersticks to Ben Avery to prepare to shoot formal or informal matches any time, anywhere, and build both confidence and familiarity with their new rifles. Both rifles performed flawlessly as far as I know. Further load development may be beneficial. Remains to be seen.

It is obvious, however should be pointed out, the performance benefit to the shooters that have participated in the Desert International events have gone on to excel in formal competition nationally and internationally. Cases in point the success of the U.S. Muzzle Loading Team at Bisley, UK, Quigley, etc...

Point: The Desert International is the ne plus ultra black powder target rifle event in the world that provides a shooter the opportunity to shoot with the proficient in a learning environment on the best range facility on earth. It is not in competition with, rather is in aid of, formal black powder target rifle matchs anywhere in the world. The Desert Internal is practical post graduate work in the "ART" of black powder target rifle shooting.

The paper target will tell you what you need to know about you, your rifle and load. It is at the Desert International where those questions are answered.

The wind is your friend.

The four of us who shot Rifleman did so with the intent that spotting for ourselves would enhance our wind reading abilities without worrying about it affecting someone else's score. Since this match is not affiliated with any score-keeping organization some of us felt that this would be a good place to take a few days and shoot for ourselves so that hopefully we could be better spotters at other matches. This was extremely challenging with the winds the way they were. Compare the scores with other matches and and you will see even the best shooters with the best spotters had their share of misses.
We shot "Ben Avery Rifleman Mod 1" rules. We were allowed three sighters on paper; after the first sighter hit paper no more coaching from our scorekeeper. If you hit paper on the first sighter you got no coaching and two more sighters. Period. The regular shooters had more sighters than that - unlimited sighters in the long range portion. I was halfway thorough my string of 15 record shots at 1000 yards when I heard the shooter next to me tell his spotter "I'm going for score."
The Pullers were allowed to mark the direction of misses with the shot placard. So a miss high left would have the red taillights and the black marker placed in the high left corner on the target. This was to allow the shooter to have a "score" for each shot. The dirt from a miss did not always show up and the mirage could be so intense that the shooter could barely see the markers on the target let alone a bullet impact in the dirt. Having the pullers mark misses helped us learn where to make wind corrections which was the point of the Rifleman exercise. This was fun and I will certainly do this again. The picture is my last sight setting on a 1000 yard relay after the winds had backed off a little. Yes a buffalo soule sight is necessary!

Hats off to the Rifleman/Creedmoor shooters. It definitely gives them a baseline of their individual abilities when shooting in this manner.
All shooters have their choice of how they desire to shoot during the generous allotted time.
Some have shot sitting from cross sticks, recumbent, cross sticks from bench, wrist rest, wrist rest and sling, etc BTW, off hand from 1,000 had no takers, any safe position.

Generally speaking the rules are: Black Powder and or Pyrodex only (no smokeless powder), cast or swaged lead alloy bullets with no gas checks, only.

Januaary 29 - February 6, 2024

Steve, That was an informative write-up, thanks!

Here is Day 3 1000 yard scores where everyone shot Rifleman. Also the match aggregate scoresheet. Good food, good prizes, great time to shoot.

So day 3 at 1000, everyone shot “Rifleman” so called rules and just 4 of you shot “Rifleman” rules the whole match?

And who were the other 3?

Thanks,

KA

Steve Foggler, Don McDowell, Eddie Hayes, John Brooker all shot rifleman modified.

In the America’s cup you shot 3 sighters no spotter and no help from the pits with high low left or right misses after cutting paper. Two days of that, the true rifleman’s match as it were.

The modified, though gives the shooter feedback on each shot, this definitely helps keep the fun factor somewhat. But that information is after each shot.

This match is by far the best bang for your buck and a great experience, in my opinion.

Kenny Wasserburger

As Steve Farringer said I feel sorry for those that didn’t come.

Thanks Kenny for the quick unabridged version. Was worried I would get an bloviated response and would have to break out the thesaurus for the big words and ask my friend Danielson up north of me to explain some to me. Intrigued by the Rifleman rules. Excellent way of having a match. I wish they were closer to home.

KA.