45 2.1 fired brass question

[Bluedog]

Hello,

First time putting anything on the forum
Shooting today 74 LRE Shiloh 45 2.1
Fireformed starline brass, dual diameter paper patch Steve Brooks mould, BACO bore wipers between shots ( followed by a dry patch)
3 rounds out of 35 did this today (if the picture goes through)
Shot around 100 rounds of the same yesterday and no issues
Today we had some rain but we were shooting from under roof

I have learned a lot from you generous folks and am sincerely grateful for your willingness to help
I am new to black powder cartridge, took possession of first Shiloh in January of this year, and have 2 more scheduled to be completed April of 2024…… I am indeed hooked.

Jason Taffera
Northeast Pennsylvania

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Wet chamber.

Chamber swab or a second dry patch is necessary.

Kenny W

[Gamerancher]

The felts on bore wipers just need to be damp, not dripping wet.
Check you brass length also. My .40-70SS will do that if I don't keep an eye on the case lengths.

[Bluedog]

Thank you Kenny and Gamerancher!

Very much appreciated

Jason Taffera

[Aviator]

Well, that case is a good specimen for an accurate measurement of chamber length!

Depending on temperature and humidity, I generally like my BACO felts well saturated, but not dripping. Just damp is sometimes not enough for me. And, I often follow with a slightly damp patch.

With a low power 45-2.1 load I never have that happen to a case, but with my higher power load a chamber swab is necessary.

As already said, a case that was already too long, or a wet chamber, are the two most-likely culprits.

[Bluedog]

Thank you Aviator!

That’s a great point about the chamber length.
That was 65.5 gr 1.5 F Swiss .060 veggie wad and a .012 card wad .080 compression (no grease cookies on these particular loads)
And 66 gr and 66.5 gr same wads resulting in whatever extra compression .5 an 1 gr of powder gave
All topped with that dd pp Steve Brooks mould dropping 565 gr bullets 30 to 1
So I’m not sure if that’s a light load or not, still searching for the tightest consistent group
I’ve got A LOT to learn but very much enjoying the journey, my father who just turned 74 is just as excited about it as I am and we are keeping busy working on developing a load

Thank you all again for your willingness to help, we wouldn’t have had any idea where to even start without you all on this forum

Jason Taffera

[Lumpy Grits]

Dry the chamber with a 'mop'.
How long is this bullet
What ROT is the bbl

[Bluedog]

Lumpy Grits,

Thank you! I will look into this “mop”
Kenny mentioned a chamber swab
I appreciate the advice!
Bullet is real close to a copy of Mr. Wasserburger’s as found in his book (thank you again Kenny)
1.485” (.452 large diameter for .375 from base and .444 up to a new postell nose)
34” barrel
1 in 18” twist near as we can tell by running a patch through and measuring the rod at a full revolution
Bore diameter is .450, groove is .458
Also just had Mr. Brooks make another mould .444 nose pour adjustable just for fire forming brass
One of the two Shiloh’s that will be ready near April 2024 will also be a .45 cal —- 2-7/8 so I figured I could use the straight .444 for fire forming that brass as well……. Hopefully

Jason Taffera

[Lumpy Grits]

Your bullet length is about max for a 1/18 ROT BBL.
IIRC, Kenny uses a 1/16 ROT.

[SchuetzenDave]

Gyroscopic stability factor:

Caliber 0.458 Inches
Bullet Weight 565 Grains
Bullet Length 1.485 Inches
Barrel Twist 18 Inches/turn
muzzle velocity 1300 fps
Temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)
Pressure 29.92 inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)

Sg = 2.33

Sg shouldn't be less than 1.4 (not enough spin). If Sg is greater than about 2.0, you may
gain some accuracy by going to a slower twist barrel (however long distance shooters wish to over spin the bullet to compensate for drag).
The bullet is OK for your 18 twist barrel.

Of course the stretched cases are due to a wet chamber.

[Bluedog]

Thank you gentlemen,

I honestly had no idea about barrel twist for this first rifle so I didn’t even specify to Shiloh. It appears we have even more to learn than we thought, hahahahaha
Perhaps a 1 in 16 twist will be in order for the 45 2-7/8

The third rifle we are thinking 38-55
Partial to straight wall cartridges, and very much enjoying paper patching
It confuses me how you gentlemen are configuring wad stacks and compressing powder in bottleneck cartridges, so I figure it’s best to stick with straight wall.

Thank you again
Jason Taffera

[bobw]

Not to big a problem you take 5 prepped cases and drop tube powder in them till their over flowing. Then gently screed the powder excess above the case top. Weigh the charge in each case any really different (hi or low discard) average the remaining. That's your dropped tube case capacity weight subtract 3 grs off that and set your powder measure for that weight. Now drop tube 10 charges into prepped cases and add a over powder wad push it snug against the powder. I allways employ grease wads so I calculate the height that will take plus another card wad and what I want for seating depth then compress enough to allow that . Keep in mind I only use fg powder in bottlenecks and never compress the overpowder wad below the neck shoulder juncture. Finer grades of powder( hotter) will give you harder fouling in the throat of the barrel. You asked ..bobw

[Bluedog]

Bobw,

Thank you for your reply!

That makes perfect sense and opens up all options now

Jason Taffera

[bobw]

I would also add that is how I patch to bore dia ppb's patch to groove is a different deal..bobw

[Bluedog]

Bobw,

Thank you again, that has me wondering now…..
This may be completely wrong but here’s where we have gotten to so far
So the small diameter slides right into the bore (.450 with paper)
Trying to get the large diameter (.458 with paper) of the dd bullet right up against the lands which has to put the bullet .300 into the case so it will chamber
The large diameter goes .375 up from the base of the bullet
So that restricts powder column height quite a bit. It was fine with goex but Swiss seems to group better out of this rifle and doesn’t seem to like over .100 compression
So especially with a grease cookie we are running out of room quickly hahahahaha
67 gr Swiss 1.5 f drop tubed sits at about.400 from the case mouth, minus a .060 veggie wad, .125 grease cookie, and a .012 card wad
That requires .097 compression just to seat the bullet the .300 into the case.
I’m thinking another mould with a shorter length large diameter from the base might be necessary

Thank you again
Jason Taffera