Wiping techniques

[JonnyV]

Hey All:

At this past Quigley, I had a pretty valuable lesson made clear in wiping when I started having trouble with a bullet I wanted to use. I had tested this bullet back home in WA state and everything had worked fine. When I got to the Q, I started fouling out in 5-6 shots. The lube grooves on this bullet are so small that (in a drier environment) they don't carry enough lube to protect that last 6" of barrel (32"). I was about to make a switch and run the second batch of ammo I prepped for the trip (loaded with Money bullets). I was wiping with M-Pro7 on delrin wipers (2.5" patches), followed by a dry patch.

I remembered some things Kenny has posted on here, and decided to alter my method. I switched to Ballistol/water 50-50 mix, and then ran a wiper, followed by a damp patch (wrung out), then a chamber swab. My problems disappeared.

I'm thinking that the conditions at the Q this year weren't even all that bad. The last two years have both been quite a bit hotter, however, I was running smokeless my first year, and last year I ran a Brooks Postell bullet with full size lube grooves. I ran into BobW on the firing line and he gave me the rundown on his wipers being loaded with nothing but H2O (he shoots PP). This has me wondering a bit...

What are the better/more competitive shooters using? What different methods have people tried? What did the ODG's use? I'm not much interested in starting a squabble over what wiping fluid is best, more interested in the different methods and theories behind each.

Thanks!

[Dennis Armistead]

I've been fortunate to shoot with the best competitor's in my opinion in very hot conditions and we use bore wipers and M-Pro 7 followed by a damp patch. Barrels so hot that the wiping fluid boils out of the barrel. No fouling, no lead. My felts (2) are soaked in the fluid and the "o" rings push everything out. I first tried using just damp felts but they were brown and smoking when I pushed them through the bore. Figured wetter the better and haven't looked back. I do swab the chamber dry though before loading. But I'm in Arizona with 10 to 15% humidity and 140 degrees on the mat. Not sure what the ODG used as they were diaper shooters. Don, Bob, Ken... no comments.
Dennis

[Don McDowell]

The ODG's or at least some of the target shooters used a somewhat complex system in that they carried 4 rods, 1 to run a damp patch, 1 to push a fischer brush, 1 for a dry patch and 1 for an oiled patch. OP Hanna said the reason the hide hunters carried two rifles of the same chamber was so when they got on a stand they fired the first one until it started shooting wild then would lay it in the snow, pick up the second rifle and go to work, if the buff were still there wipe out the first rifle and go back to work.

I use napaoil and water 1-7 with the wipers followed by a dry patch when shooting patched and a slight damp patch with the same solution with greasers.
You can also get by with a nylon bore brush pushing a damp patch or two followed by a dry, but the bore wipers leave a much more consistent clean bore and take less time and patches. I've also found that some rifles can get really picky about how wet the felts are, and the 40's of less capacity than the 40-90 get along much better with just one felt.

[jackrabbit]

Johnny, I think you made your own point in that you have to tailor your fouling control procedure to the conditions and type of shooting you are doing. One extreme is like what they used to do in the Creedmoor days and that is basically take the rifle back to a bench and clear the heck out of it. The other extreme would be just shooting dirty by using a lube wad in a hunting situation. Then there is everything in between. Obviously cleaning it at a bench does not work in the structure of today's matches, and shooting dirty only works well for a few shots and at relatively closer ranges with less accuracy demands. As you travel and shoot in multiple different environments, you will probably develop different methods to suit each different situation. In cooler, more humid places, a blow tube can work very well when coupled with a good lube. When it gets warmer and dryer, forget it. Conversely, there is no reason to go to a bunch more effort and expense to do more than is needed as well. However, a common statement among target rifle shooters which was shared to me by Bryan Youngberg sometime ago is that you can't over-wipe. Before the recent re-birth of the bore wiper contraptions, we would often run 4,5, or even six wet patches on hot dry days out in the sun in target rifle. If there was any doubt, run another one because you can't over-wipe, but you can sure under-wipe.

Posters always leave little room for humility when they ask for advice from the "better shooters" as I feel a little arrogant advertising myself as one. That being said, I seem to hold my own in most matches, so I will share what I do. I think lube is more important than many realize. Two ideas I disagree with are 1) lube is of little importance when you wipe, and 2) there are only two types of lube, those that work and those that don't. I think there are lubes that do not work, lubes that work ok, and lubes that work really well. After messing around with multiple different kinds of lube, I came to prefer Brad Rice's recipe. I am also not excited about messing with bore wiper gadgets. They can work very well, but I don't enjoy all of the fiddling around using them. I use arsenal patches over a nylon pistol bore brush wetted with Volkswagen antifreeze cut 50/50 with water. In most conditions, I can get by with one patch. I can run one patch very quickly. I can also feel bore condition and will run a second patch if needed. Also, I may start my string of shots with one, then as the barrel warms up on shot 5 or six,then go to two. I soak the patches and then squeeze them out with a potato ricer. I can vary how wet I leave the patches by how hard I squeeze the ricer. Hot dry days I leave them wetter than on cool, moist days. I like the volkswagen antifreeze as it seems to work the same as water soluble oil and water, but it does not evaporate nearly as quickly and the patches do not mold so I can hold prepared ones over to the next match with no problems. I keep them in cheap, reusable sandwich containers.

So there you go. I like my procedures as they are low in effort to do, cheap in cost, get me back on target quickly, reliable, and they are easily tailorable for varying conditions. Call or email if you would like to visit about it further.
take care, Cody

[JonnyV]

Thanks guys, I think this pretty well sums up what I was trying to put together in my head. As far as the "better shooters" thing, I only have 2 years of shooting BP under my belt, so that means everyone is pretty much better at this than I am LOL...

I'm getting clear on the idea that all the elements (bullet, lube (or PP), and wiping technique) have to match the conditions and work together to be successful. Normally, M-Pro7 works for me. This was the first time it didn't. I also got the info to run a damp patch (with moose milk) behind in order to leave a little moisture (oil) in the bore. I did not run a dry patch after, only swabbed out the chamber with a mop I got from Brian. After making the changes, my problem disappeared and I was able to shoot pretty good. I agree with the idea that it's probably better to over wipe. Luckily, the summer is starting up here and it will be hot in Yakima, so plenty of opportunities to compare wiping methods in high heat/low humidity environment.

Getting to the Q on Sunday afternoon really paid off in this regard too. I found this problem Tuesday. If I had got there later in the week, might not have had time to adjust.

[bpcr shooter]

I used a 38-55 for the Q match this year and had a 45-90 for "back-up". Both use DDPP bullets. With the 38, I use either 1 wet/1 dry patch or 1 bore critter from BA and 1 dry patch. Either works and worked there. For the 90, I made my own bore pigs with 3 felts. These too had zero issues even after 50+ rds of practice shots. I use 10-1 water/oil, (oil from fastenal) I use them soaked in the 90, damp in the 38. Both get chamber swab by the dry patch I push thru.


My father used a GG bullet with SPG and he uses a 2.5in brass screw with 4 felts and a rubber washer. This is just pushed thru by itself. he had zero issues as well. After every target change a couple patches, damp with Mpro7 were pushed thru just to remove anything that might have built up during the last session.

matt

[SSShooter]

I used a 38-55 for the Q match this year
matt

What load has worked for you in the 38-55?

[bpcr shooter]

14 twist, https://www.buffaloarms.com/371-310-grn ... 1310e.html, 55.5gr of 1.5f, .060 poly wad, fed Lp primer, starline 2.125 brass. bullet wrapped with 55w paper. It shoots way better than I can thats for sure!

I have also used the Lyman 378674 with very good results, 40gr 1.5f, .060 wad, Fed LP primer same brass
matt

[SSShooter]

14 twist, https://www.buffaloarms.com/371-310-grn ... 1310e.html, 55.5gr of 1.5f, .060 poly wad, fed Lp primer, starline 2.125 brass. bullet wrapped with 55w paper. It shoots way better than I can thats for sure!
I have also used the Lyman 378674 with very good results, 40gr 1.5f, .060 wad, Fed LP primer same brass
matt

Thanks. I'm getting 52gr of 2F in the same case shooting a 360gr BACo GG bullet and a 0.060" wad in a 30" x 12"-twist barrel. Thus far, have only rung one ram. Great Lakes 3-day regional and BPCR Nats in July. will be a good test.

To stay on topic, I wipe with single 10/1 water soluble cutting oil wet (not damp) Arsenal patch and use a shotgun swab to dry the chamber. Zero leading in my Bartlein stainless barrel.

[bpcr shooter]

On my newly made Win highwall hunter, I have a shavers front and rear sight. With that, I had 80min of elevation at 805yrd, 35min at 500. It holds the rams very well and knocks them down at least where I shoot them anyway .


matt

[SSShooter]

Have rung three rams over the past 7-8 years. One with a 360gr bullet in my 38-56 at the MI regional. One at the TX State match with a 420gr bullet in my 40-65 and one earlier this year with my 38-55 at a Shippensburg match. Am guessing they won't be my last.

[ian45662]

My first shoot at of the season at Friendship this year I rang 2 rams in 1 relay. 59 grains of Swiss 1.5 and 360 grain 38 cal bullet. Until then I had never rang a ram in my life and then ring 2 in a single relay.

[JonnyV]

Have rung three rams over the past 7-8 years. One with a 360gr bullet in my 38-56 at the MI regional. One at the TX State match with a 420gr bullet in my 40-65 and one earlier this year with my 38-55 at a Shippensburg match. Am guessing they won't be my last.

Ok…so what is “rung a ram”? Hit but not knocking it over?

[Woody]

Ok…so what is “rung a ram”? Hit but not knocking it over?

Yep. Hit a ram low center and it will not tip or twist. Your bullet has to have enough to push it off the rail. Rams weight approximately 56 lbs. All the silhouette targets can be left standing when hit on an edge with less than a full bullet.

Woody

[SSShooter]

Ok…so what is “rung a ram”? Hit but not knocking it over?

The usual way of ringing a ram is as Woody describes. However, a perfectly timed gust of wind can hold a ram up, as well. When I rang the ram at the MI match Ron Walters was on the next bank and he & I fired at the same time. His 540gr 45-70 bullet had no more affect on his ram then my 360gr bullet did on mine. Puff of wind held both rams in place.

You can also "turn" a chicken or a turkey with an edge hit. Spins the animal on its pedestal but does not knock it off. Not uncommon. Have even seen a pig spun on its front foot (one time). It went very nearly 180-degrees and stayed there until the setters were out.