First casting session

[srkmarine1101]

Just finished up my first casting session last night. Mould is a 540gr Creedmoor from Steve Brooks. I'm casting 16:1 at 750 degrees. I warm the mould before hand on a heating plate at medium. I flux with beeswax prior to casting.

I have noted that many of my bullets have that wrinkly look to the outside. My understanding is this means my mould is not up to temperature. Weights are inconsistent to say the least and can vary by a couple grains. Just looking for any tips.

Just have a couple questions for you guys:

1. Is it okay to throw these imperfect bullets back into the pot and cast again?

2.Have the properties of the alloy changed any since I have now casted them and they have cooled?

3. I have noticed that as I'm casting I get a buildup of gunk on top. Is this oxidized metal? How is the best way to manage this? I just scraped it off every once in awhile.

[JonnyV]

So if you look at your bullets close, you'll see that the driving bands are not filled out all the way. Some look good but then some others are rounded off. Off the top of my head I would say that your mold is not quite up to temp and you may need to raise your pot temperature a little. Let your mold preheat at least as long as it takes the pot to go from solid lead to "ready to cast" (30-40 minutes). Also make sure that the mold is sitting flat on the hot plate. I noticed that mine would try to sit "kicked back" meaning that only the rear corner was actually on the plate. Uneven heating results.

As fro flux, I used candle wax for a long time, and it seems to result in more gunk floating on the pot. Try switching to sawdust (not from plywood, that contains formaldehyde). I put a good heavy pinch on there and stir. Let it burn off and scoop the ash. Re-flux as needed.

You're on the right track, just keep at it. If you don't already have access to it, search up "From Ingot to Target" by Glenn Fryxell. It's free to download and print off. Best book on casting there is.

[Ray Newman]

Link to the casting article mentioned by Johnny V above:

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf

Also, this maybe of some help:

8-Phase Casting Cycle Part I -- http://www.longrangebpcr.com/Part1.htm

8-Phase Casting Cycle Part 2 -- http://www.longrangebpcr.com/Part2.htm

[DAG4570]

You are not casting fast enough. That is a big hole in that mould so it cools off real quick. Try upping your temp a little closer to 800 and cast a little faster and you will find the bullet will fill out better and your weights will be a little more consistent. You are off to a good start though. Dave

[Woody]

Just have a couple questions for you guys:

1. Is it okay to throw these imperfect bullets back into the pot and cast again?

2.Have the properties of the alloy changed any since I have now casted them and they have cooled?

3. I have noticed that as I'm casting I get a buildup of gunk on top. Is this oxidized metal? How is the best way to manage this? I just scraped it off every once in awhile.

I agree that casting temp and or cadence will get a more uniform weight and wrinkle free bullet. As to your three questions:

1. Yes it is OK to throw the imperfect bullets back into the pot. Some will disagree, but one bullet or the cut sprue will not change the overall temperature of the melt. I do it all the time. My sprues go back as soon as they are cut and imperfect bullets go back one at a time as I cast.

2. The alloy can be affected by how it is cooled. Drop them from the mould onto a folded towel and set them to the side on the towel so that they cool slowly. Don't quinch in water. Alloys containing antimony can make excellent bullets, but the hardness changes over time and that hardness can be affected by how it is cooled.

3. Fluxing is not necessary. It is messy and the only thing you are doing is returning a very small amount of the oxidized melt back to the melt. The stuff you scrape off is the same alloy ratio of the melt and will not change the melt. I stir, skim, and set aside the dross. Every couple of years, I take the dross to the scrap yard and sell it. Lately I have been getting .25 cents per pound for it. Lead / tin is a true alloy and not a mix. It does not separate or stratify if the melt is not fluxed or stirred.

Keep it simple.

Woody

[srkmarine1101]

Thanks for the tips! I'll print out that book later today, do some reading and give it another shot.

So if you look at your bullets close, you'll see that the driving bands are not filled out all the way. Some look good but then some others are rounded off. Off the top of my head I would say that your mold is not quite up to temp and you may need to raise your pot temperature a little. Let your mold preheat at least as long as it takes the pot to go from solid lead to "ready to cast" (30-40 minutes). Also make sure that the mold is sitting flat on the hot plate. I noticed that mine would try to sit "kicked back" meaning that only the rear corner was actually on the plate. Uneven heating results.

As fro flux, I used candle wax for a long time, and it seems to result in more gunk floating on the pot. Try switching to sawdust (not from plywood, that contains formaldehyde). I put a good heavy pinch on there and stir. Let it burn off and scoop the ash. Re-flux as needed.

You're on the right track, just keep at it. If you don't already have access to it, search up "From Ingot to Target" by Glenn Fryxell. It's free to download and print off. Best book on casting there is.

[Lumpy Grits]

Flux your melt.
Stir often with the ladle.
Clean your mould with carb cleaner to remove all oil before you start.

[srkmarine1101]

Thanks the the links. I'll check em out.

Link to the casting article mentioned by Johnny V above:

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf

Also, this maybe of some help:

8-Phase Casting Cycle Part I -- http://www.longrangebpcr.com/Part1.htm

8-Phase Casting Cycle Part 2 -- http://www.longrangebpcr.com/Part2.htm

[JonnyV]

One of the most important things about casting is to have a rhythm. When you put the dipper into the pot, give it a really good stir. Try to pull your lead from the bottom of the pot. Bring it out of the pot and have your mold sitting there sideways. Get the nipple into the sprue plate, and then turn the thing upright and count to 10 evenly. Once this is done, I normally let all the remaining lead in the dipper pour out and form a big sprue. I really don’t care if it makes a mess or not. I give it about another 10 count and then pop the sprue plate and drop the bullet onto the towel. Having an even cadence is going to really help your consistency a lot.

[Ray Newman]

JohnnyV is spot-on about developing a rhythm.

Cannot recall if you are using a bottom pour lead pot or a ladle. Back in the last century when I started casting, I started out with a bottom pour pot and the results were not good.

Next tried a ladle and results were so-so. A more experienced caster advised me to drill out the ladle spout 3 or 4 drill sizes larger. According to him, a quicker and heavy melt flow expels the mould air quicker, retains its temperature better, and fills out the grease grooves. I drilled out the spout to 13/64” and found an immediate improvement in the bullets.

[srkmarine1101]

This is a great idea! Going to give that a shot tonight.

JohnnyV is spot-on about developing a rhythm.

Cannot recall if you are using a bottom pour lead pot or a ladle. Back in the last century when I started casting, I started out with a bottom pour pot and the results were not good.

Next tried a ladle and results were so-so. A more experienced caster advised me to drill out the ladle spout 3 or 4 drill sizes larger. According to him, a quicker and heavy melt flow expels the mould air quicker, retains its temperature better, and fills out the grease grooves. I drilled out the spout to 13/64” and found an immediate improvement in the bullets.

[steveu834]

How are you checking the temperature, thermometer or pid? I switched to a pid and it took care of the temperature problem I was having. Also, new mould need to be broken in and if I can’t get good bullets I will smoke the mould.
FWIW,
Steve
P.S. I am a newbie at this since 1993 and still can’t get it right!

[JonnyV]

I use the PID on the casting pot. As far as the mold, the most important thing is that it's clean and free of any oil residue. I scrub with a toothbrush and hot water and dish soap. By "hot water" I mean HOT water too. Don't be afraid to rinse with a pot of boiling water. After that, you can hit it with some brake cleaner too. Isopropyl alcohol also helps get rid of oil. You can scrub the mold with Q-tips soaked in alcohol and that has worked for me in the past.

Any trace of oil in your mold can give you results like what you have been seeing.

In order for your casting to work out, several things all have to go your way at the same time. The pot and mold have to be at the right temp. The alloy needs to be clean and fluxed. You have to keep a good cadence. When all of this goes right for you, dropping bullets within a 1-1.5 gr range should become pretty much normal. There will always be a weird one here and there, but out of 100 bullets dropped, if you're culling more than 8 or so, there is some underlying problem you need to figure out.

Seems like it always goes back to the basics.

[Gamerancher]

I have a pot that uses a separate PID controller, could cast really good bullets with that but it was only a 10lb pot. I then purchased
a larger 20lb pot with inbuilt PID, when I first used it I couldn't get decent bullets. They came out just like the ones pictured.
I used the other PID to check the temperature of the new pot and found it to be 40C below my preferred casting temperature.
I reset the new pot by 40 degrees and started getting good bullets. I cast "hot" at 400 degrees Celsius using a dipper, my bullets usually
run at +/- 0.3gr with excellent fill-out and flat bases ( GG of course ) I use BA, Brooks, KAL (adjustable PP) and Hoch steel molds.

[Randy Bohannon]

Pot temps on PID controlled furnaces need to be corroborated with a casting thermometer . My RCBS ProMelt is 50 deg. different than the thermometer ,800 degrees on the PID is 750 degrees by thermometer reading . I cast at 800 on the PID and bullets are perfect .