Lead Alloy Slivers in the Brass Washer Soak

[SpanishPeacock]

Interested in any comments/experience on the subject. At this year's BPCR match at Whittington Center, Raton, NM I found lead slivers in the soak washer water and have no idea where they came from, but found them in the sink when I dumped the wash container and brass cases. I shoot a Shiloh 45-70 with a slip fit Paul Jones 530 grain Creedmore bullet in an unsized case, which are engraved into the rifling about 0.050". Lead Alloy is a BHN 10 or roughly a 1:20 tin/lead mix with a velocity of 1225 fps. I use a Simple Green water mix to soak then use a test tube brush to clean the inside. The slivers are bright and shiny and I found them when I dumped the brass into the sink and before using the brush. Since the soak bottle was new, I concluded the slivers came from the cases after I decapped and cleaned the primer pockets. I did not check the inside of the brass to see if any cases still had some slivers, but found nothing obvious on the brush after cleaning the insides. I also did not find any leading in the barrel bore either, with a good lube star at the muzzle. At first, I thought the alloy was too soft and the bullet obturated before entering the bore, except that they were slivers not rings and there were only a few slivers, maybe a dozen or so. One was definitely a long one, about 1/2" long and 0100" wide and only a few thousands thick. This is the first time I have ever seen this since shooting this rifle for the past 25 years. Any thoughts will be appreciated.

[desert deuce]

Normally speaking, slivers you describe are the result of a build up of hard fouling in the bore where the land meets the groove.
If those longer slivers do not remain in the bore then they are probably pushed out when wiping the bore, if you wipe between shots.
So, just guessing, is there a possibility that the brass somehow came in contact with the detritus fouling that was pushed out of the muzzle.?

[powderburner]

Kinda sounds like the lead is stuck on the case mouth like a paper ring but small enough to not be a ring. And falls off when rinsing the cases. Being so thin and fragile it breaks up instead of staying a ring. There is always a small gap between the chamber mouth and rifling when a case is in the chamber.
Tight crimp non parallel case mouths fast powder,a short case. lots of things can cause it. If you shot well it is not too big a problem.
Engraving the bullet could cause it if the case was a tat short.

[SpanishPeacock]

Both very good possibilities. I do wipe between shots. The cases are all about 2.090" long, roughly about 0.015" short of the SAAMI specs. My shots/score do indicate some erratic behavior that keeps me guessing as to why it is occurring. Sight picture, sight alignment, trigger break seem to be ok, especially the prone animals. Barrel fouling does clean up after 3-4 patches followed by dry patches without any signs of the lead slivers. I do bell the case mouth slightly to allow the bullet bases to easily slip in and sit on the compressed powder column and wad. I remove the belling by running the loaded cartridge minimally thru the sizing die just enough to allow the cartridge to chamber easily. The bullet will still free spin in the case, so I conclude there is no constriction of the bullet. Bullets do not fall out when turned upside down, but can easily be pulled out. I will be trying backing off the engraving a bit more and a harder alloy, maybe BHN 11 (about a 16:1 alloy), but I just can't help believe it is something else. Thanks very much for your thoughts. My motto is: "A Problem Found is a Problem Solved". I am sure the answer will be found and I will learn something new about loading and shooting the BPCR. Regards.

[Geologist]

Short Cases -- seat your bullet so the end of the case is in a grease groove.

[SpanishPeacock]

To Geologist: OK, we will minimize the engraving, which will put the case mouth in the middle of the first grease groove. Thanks.

[Gussy]

A couple possible causes. Inside case mouth rough and caught some lead. Case mouth peened in cleaning leaving a sharp lip. Need inside chamfer.

[SpanishPeacock]

Good point and you highlighted the fact that I have been negligent in chamfering the case mouth. I felt the unsized cases with a little belling to allow an easy slip fit were good enough. I did not consider the rough case mouth edge due to the peening done by the cleaning of the brass in the tumbler. Thanks

[Lumpy Grits]

What's the details of your load?

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Short cases, and as Gussy mentioned rolled case mouth are most likely one or both the cause.

Kenny Wasserburger.

[Bob Glodt]

Kenny …. I’ll take a wild guess as to what the issue may be. You stated that your cases are unsized and the bullet is a “slip fit”. If the diameter of the bullet is such that it takes at least a little pressure to seat bullets then it is possible to shear off a tiny piece of lead during the bullet seating process. I expand and campher case mouths and I still have a little of this type of thing if the bullet initially seats a tiny bit off center. My ammo is full length resized and cases expanded .001” less than bullet diameter. My bullets seat smooth and easy and lead slivers can still happen on occasion. I assume you aren’t expanding case mouths or camphering the inside of the case as part of your reloading routine. It doesn’t take much to shear off a tiny bit of lead when seating a bullet into a cartridge case that has a sharp case mouth. If you have left over ammunition, you will probably be able to find lead slivers riding just above the case mouth on some loaded rounds. Gotta look close because they are difficult to see since they appear to be part of the bullet.

[SpanishPeacock]

To Bob Glodt:
I do have plenty of left over ammo left over from the same batch and will check them closely. When loading, the bullets do seem to slip and out of the case easily with no resistance except maybe a little of the excess lube does get pushed out. When I clean the lube of the cases, I have yet to see lead slivers. I will pay closer attention and check the loaded ammo. I do not discount that maybe in loading the bullet it may tilt a bit a shave some lead. I have to mention that the slivers I found at the bottom of the sink were large enough to catch my attention quickly. Once fired, the next question is: How do they still stay in the cases? Have never seen it ever before. Cannot imagine how maybe the cases picked up some slivers after firing, decapping, primer pocket cleaning, then dumping them into a wash container.

[MikeT]

Spanish,
As mentioned previously "short case": if there is a space between the end of the case and the chamber, lead can be shaved off of the bullet and may stick to the end of the fired case.
If you set the bullet in the case so that there is a grease groove exposed at the end of the case, the grease will fill the space and prevent the lead from accumulating there.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

[RB1Shooter]

You can check case mouth peening by taking a dental pick and sliding it up and out of the case mouth after your cases have been cleaned. If your case mouth is peened over, the end of the pick will catch on the edge; you'll feel it.

[semtav]

Or stick your pinky finger in it and give it a twist.
You'll know. !!