One of Shiloh's Finest

Lee Stone · Post by **Lee Stone** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:53 am

MartyS,

I have never seen one of their engraving price lists, but I am certain that engraving is expensive. That is why I surmised that the difference could be accounted for by the engraving.

A friend of mine, Sam Alfono, is a fantastic engraver and I have watched him work. It is easy to understand why engraving is so expensive. Sam's engraving would be a bargain at any price in my probably biased opinion.

Lee Stone · Post by **Lee Stone** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:53 am

Oh, and you are right. I do post on here way too much.

Texas Shooter · Post by **Texas Shooter** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:10 pm

MartyS:

Thanks for the post. If you could buy that Fancy Hartford Rifle, Wow that would be a heck of an addition to any collection.

The original Rifle is what inspired me on My Hartford, that I am have built in honor of my best freind and Grandfather.

The Specs are:

Hartford rifle
45-70
Braco mercury compensater
Lucinda's Hammer
Crescent Buttplate
32 inch heavy octagon barrel
AAA finish
Brass Escutcheons
Custom Bedding forearm
Ebony Pistol Grip
Hartford Collar
Polished Barrel
Polished Screws
Traditional Checkering
Pewter Tip
French Gray finish
Presentation English Walnut (I will supply)
Semi-buckhorn Rear Sight
MVA Mid Range Buffalo Sight
Hadley Eyedisk
Engraving Shiloh #3 Pattern
Matching engraved Butt Plate with initials "C", "F", "D"

I think the only think I didn't put on it was Sling Swivels. As much as I will be hiking with it. (NOT) I figured they would distract and probably scratch either side of the stock or barrel.

It's due sometime around Chirstmas (How perfect)

Anyway, couldn't resist. Thanks for reading my drivel.

Texas Shooter

MartyS · Post by **MartyS** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:51 am

Checked out Track's website for the first time in more than a week. Looks like both the .45-120 and the little .40-50 SBN has (or is going to be) sold. Did really like that Samuel H. Green copy. Well ... you snooze you lose.
Oh by the way Texas Shooter, that is some gun you have on order. I take it that as you ordered the French grey finish you selected the regular engraving as opposed to having it done deeply? Did you give much thought to having the rifle chambered in a Hartford period caliber? Hope you will post a few jpegs. Bet it will be a one of a kind.

Texas Shooter · Post by **Texas Shooter** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:50 am

MartyS

Thanks for the email. Yes, regarding the regular engraving. I like how the engraving stands out on the French gray finish. For me, the Deep Engraving almost seems wasted on the Bone and Charcoal. Up close it looks great, but when you over about 15 inches away all that beautiful detail goes away. Now that being said, if it were done in 24k gold on the Bone and Charcoal, that would be something totally different, but $$$$$$.

BTW: the Engraving on page 228 it just wonderful. (French Gray of course)

Regarding the Caliber. When I was deciding this, I referenced Sellers, "Sharps", page 218, Model 1874 Sporting Rifle. The 44-77 was the most popular at Hartford, but all calibers were available. At Bridgeport, the 45-70 was the most popular. So since all were available, and I wanted it in a caliber that was authentic and easily available. (38-55, 45-70) I opted for the 45-70, with the 38-55 being second. (I will order a 38-55 some time in the future

)

I am still under the impression that 45-70 was a "Hartford" period caliber. This may be wrong, but it seemed like a reasonable choice at the time. I studied the Barrel length on the "Samual H. Green", fancy grade sproting rifle, and to me, it looked like a 32 inch barrel. I thought the dimensions and lines of that rifle were perfect and some of the prettiest I had ever seen.

When it get's here, I'll try to make some picture available for those who would like to see it. The "Birth" date on that rifle should be around Christmas 2004.

If there is some discrepency in my information or reasoning, please feel free to point it out. It will be a pretty rifle either way, but I am always interested in accurate information.

This rifle would make my Grandfather proud. <---(That's the most important reason for me) In another sense, this has been a project of love, appreciation and grieving for my best freind.

Thanks,

Texas Shooter

MartyS · Post by **MartyS** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:51 am

Good Day Texas Shooter:
In point of fact the .45-70 Gov was not a chambering used by the Sharps Rifle Manufacturing Company while in Hartford. While Sellers writes that all caibers were available he is referring to any of the following: .40-50 SBN (but not the .40-50 or .40-45 SS), .40-70 SBN (but not the .40-70 or .40-65 SS), .40-90 SBN (but not .40-90 SS - this one never chambered by any of the original Sharps companies), .44-70 or .44-75 or .44-77 all SBN, .44-90 SBN, no .45 caliber chamberings, .50-70 Gov, .50 L (i.e. .50 2"), and .50-90 or .50 2 1/2". Next time you get out Sellers' Sharps Firearms take a look at the chapter on cases (nearly or perhaps the last chapter) and this should clear this up in terms of when a particular chambering came to be used in the various Sporting, Target, and Military rifles.
Will look for the photos the beginning of the new year!

Texas Shooter · Post by **Texas Shooter** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:30 am

MartyS

Thanks for the information. I guess I haven't given that section as much attention as the specifice rifle models.

The rifles must be more fun to look at.

Texas Shooter

taw1126 · Post by **taw1126** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:57 pm

I'll have to disagree with the comment that "...the .45-70 Gov was not a chambering used by the Sharps Rifle Manufacturing Company while in Hartford..."

The 1875 (Hartford) catalog lists Sharps Sporting and Hunters Rifles available in "40/100 - 44/100 - 45/100 and 50/100 caliber" and lists "Brass, Centre Fire Re-Loading Shells" in "45/100 Caliber, 2 1/4 inches long" and "45/100 Caliber, 2 5/8 inches long". Sellers notes that the 2 1/4-inch case length was a mis-print, as is the 1876 catalog's reference to a 2 1/12-inch case length (both are supposed to be the 2 1/10 length of the .45-70).

What I find interesting is that no .45-caliber loaded ammunition was listed in the 1875 catalog and the only .50-caliber loaded ammunition shown is for the .50-70 Gov't.

James M · Post by **James M** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:20 am

If you went through the devotion of spec-ing out a Shiloh like that,
why would you ever sell it,
and how could you ever top a gun like that after selling it?

Texas Shooter · Post by **Texas Shooter** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:02 am

James M

I wasn't sure if your response was for me or not, but as unrealistic as it might sound, I'd like to think it will be part of my family forever. To be realistic, as nice as I am sure it will be, at the very least if it does someday leave the family, unless these are made illegal to own (

), hopefully it would wind up in someones collection where it would be still be appreciated.

Texas Shooter

James M · Post by **James M** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:41 am

Texas Shooter,

Your's is daisy, no doubt. I can only hope mine is as fine as yours.
I was asking in reference to the Sharps on auction at the start of this post.

James M
...reading my copy of Sharps Firearms by Frank Sellers...

Texas Shooter · Post by **Texas Shooter** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:19 pm

James M:

You and me both. I'd pay $150 for a volume 2 in color.

Texas Shooter

Texas Shooter · Post by **Texas Shooter** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:06 pm

James M:

I agree, I to would NEVER get rid of a gun like that, ever........

It's a wonderful catch for someone. One of the things I liked the best was, as mentioned in the Shiloh catalog. Something like, "Upgrades are aways a good thing to add to the rifle". That rifle I think proves that statement true.

It's nice to know quality yesterday, is still quality today, as it will be tomorrow.

Texas Shooter

James M · Post by **James M** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:08 am

Texas Shooter,
I'd pay that much for a Vol II in color also.
When my Shiloh catalog arrives, I'll take a personal day off from work and unplug the phone.

Bumper · Post by **Bumper** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:37 am

I admire the wonderful examples of art that highly decorated firearms represent but really enjoy shooting a rifle/gun more than looking at one on a wall or in a glass case. I hope the BP rifles that I shoot will be used by my son & grandson as my greastest pleasure comes from taking these rifles to the range and making some smoke. I bought a Johnathan Browning Mountain rifle that was unfired (a beautiful rifle) but have decided to sell it (still unfired) and invest the money in another BP rifle most probably a Sharps 45-110 that will be used. Museum/collector quality fire arms preserve both history and art for us and our children. Finely made BP replica fire arms and affordable antiques let me enjoy the history and art of these guns in a personal and rewarding way. Rbump