bullets

[vikingsword]

I have a question concerning the choice shooters make in the decision to shoot either PP, or GG bullets. When your gearing up for a competition, what are your deciding factors affecting that decision ? I've not participated in a shoot yet, but done a lot of reading, and it doesn't appear that the rules dictate one or the other. I know some barrels are chambered to give better performance for PP, but I've also read of folks asking competitors which they are gonna shoot using their favorite rifle indicating they can shoot either. Hope this isn't the standard dumb question that everyone should know the answer too, if it is, I beg your forgiveness, and thank you. Wes

[steveu834]

I shoot gg’s because I’m still trying to figure out how to cast good bullets. I have thought about pp, but I think it’s more work than the return I would get for the effort right now. I shoot silhouette. If I get into long range then I will start to pp bullets due to the better bc of the bullet at that range.

Cheers,
Steve

[JonnyV]

OK so I'm still a rookie at this, but here's what I see...BP shooting allows for a high degree of individuality. There are two good bullet designs, PP or Greaser... Working up a load for your barrel can be as simple or as complicated as you make it. I've been shooting the last two years with a greaser and one .060" Walters fiber wad, with a parchment paper release wad between it and the bullet. My scores at the Q (only big match I've shot so far) have improved year over year. The first year I went there I didn't know anybody and I didn't have a spotter or anyone to help me out. I had made up my mind that I would just not worry about it and shoot alone. Rockridge (from this forum) must have saw this because on match day he plopped down behind me (without being asked) and spotted/guided me through the whole thing. I'll never forget it.

As far as picking a load to go with....Basically, I run ladder tests (Rick Moritz's method) to narrow down the possibilities of what a good load might be, and then group test the resulting candidate loads as thoroughly as possible. I take every effort to load my ammo as precisely as possible. I am an anal-retentive A-hole control freak who always has to know "why". When I get really interested in something, I like to hyper focus on it. Lots of times, I come off as reactionary and a D-head. No worries. I pick the load that I have the most faith in based on several trips to different ranges shooting with it.

It's up to you to decide what level of performance you want from your ammo, and then take the steps needed to make it that way. This is an individual sport. You'll be alone when you cast the bullets and load the ammo, and you'll be the only one holding the rifle when you let the shot off too. Most people at the Q are there for relaxation. Only a few handfuls of guys go there thinking they have a shot at winning it.

Getting started is the important thing. You won't learn unless you participate. Being at these matches helps you make friends and then they help you get better. Don't be the guy who's "trying to get good enough before you go", that will never happen. Just start going....It's a win-win situation!

[Don McDowell]

When you’re gearing up for completion you want the best load your rifle likes
Grease groove probably easier in that bullet length/diameter , wads and fouling control not as critical as patched

Get the best shooting load you can put together at the distances you’ll shoot I’m a match and go
Over the course of time you will learn a lot shooting in matches

[ian45662]

A have a question concerning the choice shooters make in the decision to shoot either PP, or GG bullets. When you’re gearing up for a competition, what are your deciding factors affecting that decision ? I've not participated in a shoot yet, but done a lot of reading, and it doesn't appear that the rules dictate one or the other. I know some barrels are chambered to give better performance for PP, but I've also read of folks asking competitors which they are gonna shoot using their favorite rifle indicating they can shoot either. Hope this isn't the standard dumb question that everyone should know the answer too, if it is, I beg your forgiveness, and thank you. Wes

I standard chamber is very capable of shooting paper patch and grease groove ammo. I have shot paper patch ammunition for several years out of standard chambers and have done well. Having said that this season I have switched back to grease groove ammunition for silhouette. I’ll be trying grease groove ammo at long range here in a couple of weeks. I don’t see myself going to back to paper for silhoette. If you’re looking for a bullet to try the Creedmoor and postel designs are pretty safe bets. They will usually shoot in just shoot everything. If paper patch is something that you want to try then I would suggest doing it after you have had some success with grease groove ammo. Where abouts are you from? I live in southern Ohio very close to Kentucky.

[desert deuce]

Yes I tried PP bullets in two different rifles and went back to gg.

Why, because shooting bench rest at 200 Meters with a rear bag rest both rifles would shoot closer to half MOA than one MOA with select developed loads as gg for ten shot groups and shooting from X sticks at 200 Meters could keep ten shots in nice round clusters just under one MOA. Could not get PP to shoot anywhere near that. Note the difference between X-sticks and bench rest groups.

Yes, I know several people that say these guns will not shoot one minute or less and I observed two of those nay sayers watch consecutive five shots hit the center of the 5 inch scoring disk at 600 yards. GG bullets of course.

Friend, if the rifle and load will shoot to that level of accuracy with GG it is up to the shooter to take advantage of that level of performance.

If you have not done load development at the range and put in enough trigger time in practice you will likely not perform up to your expectations in competition.

Mental preparedness is a whole different matter once you get to the one MOA to sub one MOA level. Oh, I forgot to mention, it is up to the shooter to develop their capabilities up to that of their rifle and load

[JonnyV]

Yes I tried PP bullets in two different rifles and went back to gg.

Why, because shooting bench rest at 200 Meters with a rear bag rest both rifles would shoot closer to half MOA than one MOA with select developed loads as gg for ten shot groups and shooting from X sticks at 200 Meters could keep ten shots in nice round clusters just under one MOA. Could not get PP to shoot anywhere near that. Note the difference between X-sticks and bench rest groups.

Yes, I know several people that say these guns will not shoot one minute or less and I observed two of those nay sayers watch consecutive five shots hit the center of the 5 inch scoring disk at 600 yards. GG bullets of course.

Friend, if the rifle and load will shoot to that level of accuracy with GG it is up to the shooter to take advantage of that level of performance.

If you have not done load development at the range and put in enough trigger time in practice you will likely not perform up to your expectations in competition.

Mental preparedness is a whole different matter once you get to the one MOA to sub one MOA level. Oh, I forgot to mention, it is up to the shooter to develop their capabilities up to that of their rifle and load

Exactly....

These rifles obey the very same set of physics as every other rifle on the planet. There is no special exemption that says BP rifles are going to be less accurate than smokeless. There are OTOH, a lot of people who have lower expectations for BP.

[SchuetzenDave]

Someone who had the same Shilo Sharps rifle as mine, said that he was getting exceptional groups with his PP bullets.

He loaned me some to try in my rifle.

They never grouped; just scattered all over the target.

So I stuck with 1 MOA GG bullets with Alberta Schuetzen Lube instead of trying to develop PP bullets for my rifle.

[Don McDowell]

As said before choose the type of bullet you want to shoot the most and go to work finding the correct load
I know a paper patcher that shot the spotting disc mid ring of the 10 ring 3 consecutive shots at 1000 during a match at a notoriously evil changing condition range, but tha shooter down.t make a fuss about it and there wasn’t any articles in the news about it…
Also know of another match shot at 1000 without a spotter where a notorious rapid anti patcher shot a 203 4x and a paper patcher shot a 203 flat.
So ther you have it with enough work paper patching can treat you very well as can greasers
Choose your medicine and go

[semtav]

I have a question concerning the choice shooters make in the decision to shoot either PP, or GG bullets. When your gearing up for a competition, what are your deciding factors affecting that decision ?

It all comes down to one question. Why are you shooting these old rifles?

If you're only doing it to collect baubles, then take all the new fangled shortcuts you can. ( Hint: you can't take those fancy baubles with you when you go.)

If you are shooting them for the historic aspect, then it should be obvious and you will have a way more enjoyable journey.

[bobw]

Well said semtav..bobw

[mike herth]

What Bobw said!

Although greasers are historic too. Bring on the trapdoors, etc.