Shiloh Rifle Forums

I have been buying .444 swaged pure lead PP cupped bullets from a well know retailer that sells BP supplies and getting accuracy that rivels my cast GG bullets. Looking at these posts it looks like everyone is using a 16:1 or some other alloy for their cast PP bullets. What is the general thought on the swaged pure lead bullets in .444 diameter in a Shiloh Sharps? I see many prefer casting and a .446 diameter.

I used .443, .444 bullets in the past and it mainly depends on your paper thickness. I now am in the process of getting loads for a .446 with 55w Alvin paper. With the .444 bullets I used .002 thick paper (cant remember the name) and it was a nice slip fit. Swaged bullets from what I've been told, have less inconsistencies in them, ie, air pockets, out of round, etc. Weather its true or not....I do know that, the majority of us that shoot PP (in my small group anyway) do not shoot a cupped base, or swaged bullets. There was some discussion on this a while back on here about cupped bases.

Pure lead can and will work but, it all depends on nose length. You will get nose set-back changing the shape of your bullet, you may get nose slump if it has a long nose profile. I'd try to get it a bit harder if you can, 20-1 and harder.

FWIW....swaging can be expensive, the press, dies,etc are not cheap vs a mold. There is also more work to produce the same bullet. With todays tech getting a bullet mold to be round and quality casting technique's you can make just as good a bullet. Even after the wrap, some are sizing that bullet with the paper on.

As long as you keep the pressure and the alloy compatable you will have no problems. When you start pushing the velocity up you will need harder alloys. Kinda depends on what you want to do.

just for the sake of jumping on the band wagon
As has been stated already, it depends a bunch on the bullet shape, velocity and the distance you're shooting, and the level of accuracy you're looking for.
For long range accuracy a quick look back at the ODG's, and as early as 1875 Remington wrote in their catalog that they were mistaken when they thought soft bullets would be fine for long range shooting. By the end of the Creedmoor era bullets as hard as 11-1 were thought be be the best with many of the individual shooters saying their preference was 14-1 or nothing harder than 15-1.

I always wonder about the folks on the internet that say you must use dead soft bullets in a bpcr for hunting, but yet have no qualms about loading a 44 magnum handgun with bullets cast from hardball or linotype bullets and going afield to slay their game.. Sort of along the lines of the 300 gr bullet from a 45-70 at 1600 fps isn't sufficient for hunting, but swear the 454 casull with a 300 gr bullet at 1600 fps is the best of the best for hunting...

I have and use swage presses and dies from Dave and Richard Corbin and they swage a fine very consistent weight bullet that have an exact weight. I can swage them with 1/16 alloy without a problem. The pure lead will work like Dean said but the harder alloys will do better.
I don't use the equipment much anymore except for the hardball pistol and some .30 caliber jacketed bullets.
I can cast a bullet that shoots just as well as the swaged from the good moulds from Brooks or BA.

Kurt wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:19 am I have and use swage presses and dies from Dave and Richard Corbin and they swage a fine very consistent weight bullet that have an exact weight. I can swage them with 1/16 alloy without a problem. The pure lead will work like Dean said but the harder alloys will do better.
I don't use the equipment much anymore except for the hardball pistol and some .30 caliber jacketed bullets.
I can cast a bullet that shoots just as well as the swaged from the good moulds from Brooks or BA.

Thanks everyone, I have been using Dave's equipment for a number of years for making copper tube bullets and was wondering if it would be worth ordering a set of his PP swage dies. I like the convenience of buying them but I will be ordering a mold next. I was looking at KAL tool and asked a question about shipping to the US several weeks ago but had no response.

Drop powderburner a PM.

I don't think that you can get a more precise bullet than a swaged bullet but the cost having a die set made is not what it used to be in the 60's. I started with the Bahler and Herters before Corbin but times have changed with the quality moulds now available.

What is the intended use of your PP load? Hunting or target work? Guys are using the harder 16-1 alloys as they can shoot aerodynamic bullets at good velocities and not worry about bullet slump shooting flatter loads with better accuracy.

A softer alloy, even pure lead, with a blunt nose profile would be just the ticket for hunting, with acceptable accuracy for hunting purposes. That's what I use in a couple of my rifles.

Regards,
Manny