40 2 1/2 bullet diameter

[TAA]

The barrel is a 1:16 twist Badger. The Paul Jones bullet drops out of the mold @ 0.410" diameter. To make it fatter, I could modify the alloy a bit. I suspect that smaller might negatively impact accuracy.

Suggestions for bullet diameter?

Thanks!

Tom

[bryany]

.4085 to .409 is what my Shiloh 40-70 Sharps Straight shoots best. Your bore should be .400/.408 unless the barrel was intended for a 405 Winchester. You might need to slug the bore to confirm.

Bryan

[TAA]

I do use 405 WW Hornady cases. When I ordered the gun I said I'd be using 405 cases. So maybe that influenced them to chamber it for .410" diameter bullets? I do have .409" and .408" dia. sizing dies. But I will try slugging it as you suggest.

Thanks!

Tom

[TAA]

Was out raking those dreaded pine needles. Pine trees, puppies and kitties are all the same....cute when little but a pain when they grow up! But while raking, I said to myself....what if all these years of shooting my bullets have been too large?

So when taking a raking break, I slugged the barrel, as earlier suggested. Using my mic, I see about 0.4082" to 0.4084" on the fattest part of the bullet. So maybe sizing @ 0.490", reducing the 0.410" dia. as-cast bullet a thousandth, might be worth looking at. Going down to 0.408" is probably too small, assuming the sizing die is what it says it is.

Tom

[bryany]

Good bullet alloy will bump up a bit to fill the bore. I wouldn't worry too much about .408 bullets. It's certainly something to try while you are experimenting to find the right size. I like 20-1 in my 40-65 and 16-1 in some of my 40-70 SS bullets. Depends on how fast you are pushing them.

Bryan

[Gamerancher]

Yep, My Shiloh .40-70 SS shoots better with .409 than .408 using 20-1 but I'm only pushing them @ 1250 f/s.

[marlinman93]

I'm a bit confused? If the groove diameter is at .4082" to .4084", why size it down from .410"? Being that small amount over groove diameter, I'd shoot some at the as cst size, and see how they shoot before sizing them down closer.
I've had good results with bullets .001"-.002" over groove diameter.

[TAA]

I've been shooting the bullets @ as-cast of 0.410" since 2013. So it's time to try a different size, this time 0.409" and possibly 0.408", if 0.409" doesn't do well.

For smokeless loads, my 30 PPC and 308 Winch cast bullets are 0.311", 0.003" over nominal. For my .22 BR, the bullets are sized @ 0.225", about 0.002" over nominal. For my .41 Mag revolver I use a 0.411" sizing die but I suspect that's too large for the Sharps. My S&W revolver in .45 Auto Rim should use 0.452" bullets but due to the large cylinder throats, I have to use 0.455" bullets.

The smokeless world is different than the BP world.

My Model 74 is a CSA.

Tom

[SchuetzenDave]

I always shoot bullets .002" wider than my groove-to-groove diameter of my barrel.

I shoot a .40 Creedmoor Paul Jones bullet of 422 grains or .40 Boomer Money of 410 grains both with .410" diameter in both my 16:1 .40-65 Shiloh Sharps 1874 and my 16:1 .40-60 Maynard CPA using 20:1 Lead:Tin alloy using Swiss FFFg @1,250 fps.

I also use .002 wider bullets 236 grain Paul Jones Spitzer bullets when shooting my .32 RKS Miller DeHaas with smokeless powder @1,526 fps using 20:1 alloy in 11.5:1 twist (.323" wide in .321" barrel)

I get 1/2 MOA accuracy with cast bullets in my .32 RKS.

[TAA]

Dave,

Quite instructive and talk about "target envy"!

I plan to empty my melting pot and refill it with 20:1 alloy. Right now I have a fairly hard, about 12 or15:1, for my smokeless loads in the pot. I'll make a new batch of bullets and assemble two lots, sized 0.409" and 0.410". But up here in Minnesota, good weather (not real cold and no snow) gets hard to come by this time of year.

One detail that could be hampering my results is powder granulation size. Just before I retired, I was given "permission" to buy a case. I chose Old Eynsford 1 1/2. I did shoot a handful of some Swiss 2f but not enough to form any conclusions. I never considered 3f but maybe should have. I have 20-pounds of the OE left. So I'm kind of "stuck" with this pile of powder.

Winter is on the way!

Thanks!

Tom

[Don McDowell]

69 grains of OE 1 1/2 shoots well in my 40-70 using Jamison cases. Never had the desire to grind down any of my 405 cases for it.
One thing you might check is the twist in that barrel, my CSA badger barreled rifle has 1-18 twist, until I got that figured out I was cussing it, then I started shooting bullets no longer than 1.25 and things came together nicely.
Now if I could just muster up the courage to see if all the smith work done on the innards of the lock cured the problems with it not wanting to go off when and if you could pull the trigger....

[TAA]

Don,

This is my second 1:16 Badger barrel. The first was in 40-65 but shortly after I received the rifle, I relialized that 40-65 was not an original Sharps chambering, so I sent it back for the 40-70 barrel, again in 1:16. I started (2011) with (150) Hornady 405 cases. Today I have (139) left, some being "abused" during reloading by me! But...I have (3) unopened boxes of the same. Trimming them to length is not too much of a PIA. Those are my (150) "reserve" cases.

I settled on 68.0 of OE 1 1/2 but did try 69.0 once. I plan to try 69 again. I put a waxed paper disc in the bottom of the case before the powder goes in. Primers are FC large pistol. I do have quite a few BR 2's in my inventory. The length of my Paul Jones Money bullet is 1.494" long. My other mold is the Saeco #740 weighing about 410-grains and is 1.321" long. So maybe my bullets are too long? I initialy wanted a longer/heavier bullet with the hope of leaving no rams @ 500-meters. That bullet length thing is interesting. Is the length the total projectile length or is it only the bearing length of the driving bands, the part in contact with the bore?

Responses here have been very helpful. Thanks all!

Tom

[Don McDowell]

the entire bullet length is vital. It is possible to get by with a bullet that is to long for the twist provided velocity is adequate, but at some point down range the velocity begins to fall to the point the bullet won't stay stable. In calm conditions that can be somewhere around 5-600 yards, in windy conditions all bets are off beyond 200.

[SchuetzenDave]

Caliber 0.408 Inches
Bullet Weight 410 Grains
Bullet Length 1.321 Inches
Barrel Twist 16 Inches/turn
muzzle velocity 1400 fps
Temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)
Pressure 29.92 inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)

Sg = 2.47

Caliber 0.408 Inches
Bullet Weight 459 Grains
Bullet Length 1.494 Inches
Barrel Twist 16 Inches/turn
muzzle velocity 1400 fps
Temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)
Pressure 29.92 inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)

Sg = 1.95

Sg shouldn't be less than 1.4 (not enough spin). If Sg is greater than about 2.0, you may gain some accuracy by going to a slower twist barrel (however we sometimes over spin the bullet to compensate for drag over long distances - 1,000 yards). Both bullets should be OK in your 16:1 twist barrel.

[TAA]

Excellent feed back and coaching.....thank you!

I forgot to mention....I did chronograph the 68.0-grain loads @ 1,323 fps. I'm guessing that 69-grains would push that up a bit.

Tom