OAL Exploration

[ccongos@me.com]

I've been busy! Now that the weather has finally turned down here in Texas, I was finally able to turn a few pounds of ingots into a handful of bullets and smaller ingots.

The mold I'm using is the Lee 459-500-3R. After burning through about a dozen or so duds, I started throwing half-way decent bullets. I stopped after about 10. So now, I've chose one and am experimenting with over-all-length for my specific rifle.

I've attached a picture of what I have. I filled it with corn meal and a Walters fiber wad. I have a question though.

If I chamber this round, with no crimp, and I decide to abandon the shot, when I pull it out, the bullet stays in the lands. But with a mild crimp, it does not.

I once heard someone here said the most consistent crimp is no crimp. But if I do that, I have to tap out the bullet with a rod.

What if I give it a light crimp to account for such occasion? Will I still be able to attain exceptional accuracy sometime in the future?

[bpcrshooter62]

lol thats an old wives tall but try it if you like lol

[bpcrshooter62]

Sorry for laughing but if you have no neck tension on your loads you will have no consistency in them at all IMHO keep shooting and have fun

[Don McDowell]

Fired and unsized case, likely that bullet is to small diameter.
Resized and expanded case that bullet is to small for your expander diameter
But either way it won't matter that bullet won't shoot worth a flip past 200 yards anyway.

[semtav]

Don't let anyone kid you . You can get very good accuracy with no crimp, no neck tension etc with black powder.

It's done all the time with paper patch.

Tapping the bullet out with a wood dowel or a cleaning rod is a non issue.

[bryany]

I've been shooting with no neck tension/slip fit for a number of years with some success. Knocking a bullet out of the bore is a rare need and easily done with the wiping rod. Consistent neck tension with a crimp is hard to accomplish. No neck tension is consistent every time. I do like to load hard into the lands, as hard as my thumb is willing to push.

I'm not sure how well that bullet design will perform but I'd fill every lube groove with lube and use a good known alloy.

Bryan

[ian45662]

No crimp and no tension for me either. Or in some instances VERY little tension. How often do you plan on chambering a round then jacking it out? I would be in the same situation as you. Mine are loaded so that the front driving band is about .030 into the lands and with no neck tension or crimp they will stay put if I had to remove the live round for some reason ( which I can’t remember ever having to do that). If they shoot better with no crimp or tension then that’s where I would go but if your rifle likes neck tension and or a crimp then you can do that and your problems will be solved. Another thing you might be able to do…. If you had a brass pin gauge or something similar. Something that is just ended bore diameter. You could just drop that down the muzzle and the inertia of that May pop out the projectile.

[gunlaker]

I'd advise for doing load development based on how the bullet comes out when you pull the trigger, not to make it easier to remove an unfired round.

I've shot a lot of rounds out of these rifles and it's pretty clear to me that zero neck tension loads, or loads with very light neck tension ( annealed cases with an expander that is 0.001" under bullet diameter ) is the way to go.

I'd also consider getting a Buffalo Arms mold for your rifle. With a Shiloh you have the best of rifles, why not use the best molds too? I have to say that I've never used a Lee mold, but the single most valuable thing I've learned with these rifles is to just have a look at what the top shooters are doing. Start there and you'll be on that first rung that Zack was talking about in the other thread.

Chris.

[Coltsmoke]

I have shot neck tension loads successfully for several years but, it adds several issues you have to correct which adds extra time and work. Don't load it if you are not going to pull the trigger, problem solved, or you could go PP loads.

[MikeT]

Unfortunately, a PP bullet that fits the bore properly, will need to be pushed out of the barrel if the cartridge is removed after chambering.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

[ccongos@me.com]

Thank you everyone for your input, it gives me lots to think about! A better mold is in my future. Baby steps.

[desert deuce]

What Gunlaker said;

And, as Brother Dave Maurer has said on so many occasions, "If you want to shoot good scores, you have to shoot good bullets."

[desert deuce]

As an afterthought, I have a 45-90 with a slightly oversized chamber near the case mouth.
Like a .459 bullet is a little loose when pushed base first into the mouth of a fireformed case.
Now just because a sizing die is marked .458 DOES NOT MEAN the sized bullet comes out .458.

In fact, I have 4 Saeco sizing dies marked .458 and only one sizes the bullet .458.
Neck sizing a fireformed case makes a .458 bullet snug but removeable with fingers.
Sizing the bullet to .4575, the bullet slides right into the neck sized case finger fit, even a little air compression when seated to stop on the wad but not enough in my mind to qualify as neck tension.
Simply seating the .458 Sized bullet in the oversized fireformed case and taper crimping snug, .030 into the grooves, proved the most accurate in that rifle at long distance. Out to 500M could not see a difference.

And to further emphasize what Gunlaker mentioned, you have to have a good mould to cast good bullets.