Wet Tumbling Issue with BH 209

[omgb]

When BH 209 came out years ago, I was given a factory sample 8 lb. bottle. I used it in my inline MLs with excellent results. I could shoot all day without cleaning and velocities were phenomenal. So, I figured, why not try it in my 45-90 and 45-70. Again, I could shoot all day without cleaning and velocities were great. The trouble came with clean up. The company said do not use water, it will not work, and it will leave a gummy mess. So, I used their product, Ed's red, Hoppe's #9 etc. and the bore cleaned up really nice. The trouble came when I cleaned cases. I waited a few days to wet tumble the cases and when they finished their cycle, the cases were covered with a black, oily/sticky spooge that also grimed up my hands. I cleaned the tumbler, cleaned the media, use more soap and retumbled the cases. It took several cycles of this before the cases came out clean. I blamed the delay, not the BH 209. This went on for many years. It was intermittent because most of the time, I loaded BP and sometimes, I mixed BP fouled cases with BH 209 fouled cases. It just never occurred to me what was causing it. It didn't until Sunday last. I had a bunch of .45 Colt cases I had loaded with BH 209 to try in my new Schofield revolver. Without a pause, I dumped the dirty cases in my tumbler and added a dozen or so brass 12 ga hulls that had been fired using Longshot. Three hours later I opened the case to find the ugly black spooge coating everything. This is when the light came on. It was the reaction of the BH 209 residue with the water that made the mess. Duh! So, from now on, if I use BH 209, I'll clean the cases in mineral spirits first. Then wet tumble them. Figured I'd pass on this tidbit JIC anyone else was as slow as I am.

[desert deuce]

Been looking on line for Blackhorn 209, most every store in California has plenty of it, however, they tell me it is against California to ship any powder from California to anywhere else. Even Oregon and Washington have it but nobody will ship it out of state.

Muzzle Loader season for us is Nov 15, 2023, and we need one 8 oz bottle. Nowhere to be found in Arizona.

[semtav]

I could dump a bunch in some 45-120 brass and send you. Wonder if that would count as loaded ammo if the Primers we're already used?

[hipshot1]

I wet tumble 209 cases with frankford arsenal cleaner and a shot of dawn, tumble for about a hour and the brass comes out looking like new. Water is not your problem. Also some of the cases have sat around for several months befor they were cleaned.

[omgb]

I am certain that using water and BH 209 is causing my problem. YMMV, but I've ruled out everything else. I also know that trying to clean a bore with water and soap produces the same black sludge. Anyway, if you feel your experience is different, then good enough. I'm going to clean the cases in mineral spirits before tumbling from now on.

[hipshot1]

Just trying to help you out, I dont know of anyone that uses Blackhorn that is having the problems that you have. I dont use water to clean the bore, I have always just used a smokless cleaner and it has worked fine.

[mike herth]

I was sure tempted to try Blackhorn 209, then I checked Midway, $73 for a half pound, uf-dah! What is a typical load in a 45-70 and a Postel greaser?

[hipshot1]

Mike at one time it was expensive to shoot now its out of this world. It has more than doubled in price and down to 8oz can. I still have some left but will be going to something else when thats gone.

[mike herth]

That's a real bummer, Dave. The costs of shooting is becoming formidible.

[omgb]

Thank you Hipshot. I do appreciate the response. As to the price of BH 209, it is way too expensive. If I hadn't been given 8 lbs. I wouldn't use it. Here's the deal. It is great in inline MLs. I will stick to using it there. It is impossible for shotshell loads. It just won't build pressure for good ignition and velocities. It is absolutely unusable in brass shotshells powered by pistol primers. It won't light, period. It cannot be used in sidelocks, even when they are converted to 209 primers. Honestly, to light, it requires a hot flame and direct contact with that flame.

I will continue to use it in my Scofield revolver when I shoot outdoors, using large magnum pistol primers. Unlike BP, it won't gum up and seize the calendar. For indoor ranges who don't like smoke, I'll just use Clays.

For my 45-90 and 45-70 I'll stick with either BP or AA5744. BP being the primary choice.

On a side note. I once spoke with Hodgdon's about duplexing. Using a small charge of BP to get a more consistent ignition of the BH209. They just about had kittens. They said that was untested and likely very unsafe due to certain properties of BH209. I believed them. This powder cannot be safely compressed, and it is 10-15% more energetic than BP. So, it has to be used with care.

So, while it has it's uses, it is not a panacea by any stretch of the imagination.