Buffalo rifle specs.

[bohemianway]

While looking for this for a friend I thought it adds one more piece of evidence for the preference to the 45 2 7/8 in the later period. And at 13lbs 11oz at the midpoint of typical weight.

Charles

griffin3.JPG

[bobw]

Charles, I have a sporting rifle from Bridgeport # 161xxx. Rifle was invoiced on October 15th, 1877 to B Kittredge in Ohio a big firm who sent many rifles out west for the buffalo years. Also a 45 2 7/8" it weighed 14lbs 2oz. With 30" barrel. Cost 44 dollars it was shipped a lot of 20 rifles to B Kittredge some of those rifles weighed over 15 lbs and were priced at a dollar more. I had it lettered last year by Dr Labowski who noted that it was the 1st inquiry on this serial number. It's fascinating to handle and shoot these old 74's even more so if you can trace their history. Mine was bought from a local dealer who bought it from an 86 year old woman. She had inherited it from her dad he had found it in a closet of a cabin he bought in 1908...in the western Black Hills. That's far back as I have been able to run it down. Bobw

[bohemianway]

What is interesting about that one, and what is not in the record, is that is was subsequently re-barreled to a 30" 16lb 50-90 with all the right under barrel markings including the weight numbering system.

I have two, local to me, history 74s:
The history of a military "Old Model 74" 45-70 I have traced back through James Hamilton (Hamiton Mfg. est. 1880 of wood print blocks and lab desks) to John Kahlenberg (Kahlenberg Brothers Mfg. est. 1895) both of Two Rivers Wisconsin. This I got from a high school classmates father who was a silent partner in the LGS.

SN 1596XX a Kittredge shipped April 5, 1877 30" 10lb 2oz 45-70 $42 was purchased from the family of the owner who had it in the 1890's and was a member of the Black Wolf Schuetzen Verein (est. 1852 ish) in Fond du lac Wisconsin.

These are more important to me than than the Western shipped rifles.

Charles

[bobw]

If they could talk they could tell us lots of stories. my 74 I mention up above while built as a buffalo rifle had the original barrel turned rd to about a business rifle contour. I imagine the owner just got tired of the extra weight for other hunting after the buffalo were gone. But then if all original and nice shape it probably been priced out of my reach. Bobw

[marlinman93]

Considering how well Sharps kept records, their records tell far more of the story than most old single shots do! Rifles like Ballard, Remington, Stevens, all have no info, so without some info from a gun that stayed in one family for 140 yrs. there's no information at all.
So many old guns got modified, customized, and rebarreled, that a good many don't match factory records, even when those records exist. A number of them got customized when they were fairly new also, so changes have been done so long ago that today they look original until you do letter them!

[bobw]

Well taken point MM. Not all use is documented on paper but some on the rifle it self. Freund modifications tell of use in the west. Walter Cooper of Montana like to put his stamp on rifles he sold. Native Americans like to beat tacks in the wood work. Worn bellied out forends tell of much travel over the saddle.. Patina in place of lost finish tells of much exposure to weather etc. When a guy finds an original that is in really nice shape you kinda go wow and then think man that rifle didn't do jacksh*t just set in a closet. They thought of them as tools and more often than not the originals didn't get the maintenance and care we give our rifles today. The condition of an original rifle tells of its use and how it was used. I've had the chance to examine more than a few original Creedmoors, Long Range models and Mid Range target rifles all show wear and use but nothing like the guns used exclusively for hunting. You see some guns with well pitted bores and some with decent bores but a few pits. Lot of the damage you see was not from original owners but from the sorry people they were left too who did not maintain them at all. People who let their kids beat the hell out of them playing with them. Stories of their use are not all documented on paper but what is left of the original by the time we get it. Historical rifles all tell a few stories starting with a letter telling you the invoice date and to who. Frank Conrad of Ft Griffin Texas 99% chance it went buffalo hunting during the period of the southern herd hunt.
The best way to expose yourself to as many original Sharps rifles as possible is to attend the annual SCA show it will be in Greeley , Colorado in may of 24. Next best way is just join the Sharps Collector Association where 3 times a year you will get a copy of the Sharps Collector Report a very high quality magazine that features articles on Sharps firearms in every issue famous ones to obscure ones. Every rifle has a story it could tell it takes the knowledge and perspective of the current owner to uncover it...bobw

[marlinman93]

Well taken point MM. Not all use is documented on paper but some on the rifle it self. Freund modifications tell of use in the west. Walter Cooper of Montana like to put his stamp on rifles he sold. Native Americans like to beat tacks in the wood work. Worn bellied out forends tell of much travel over the saddle.. Patina in place of lost finish tells of much exposure to weather etc. When a guy finds an original that is in really nice shape you kinda go wow and then think man that rifle didn't do jacksh*t just set in a closet. They thought of them as tools and more often than not the originals didn't get the maintenance and care we give our rifles today. The condition of an original rifle tells of its use and how it was used. I've had the chance to examine more than a few original Creedmoors, Long Range models and Mid Range target rifles all show wear and use but nothing like the guns used exclusively for hunting. You see some guns with well pitted bores and some with decent bores but a few pits. Lot of the damage you see was not from original owners but from the sorry people they were left too who did not maintain them at all. People who let their kids beat the hell out of them playing with them. Stories of their use are not all documented on paper but what is left of the original by the time we get it. Historical rifles all tell a few stories starting with a letter telling you the invoice date and to who. Frank Conrad of Ft Griffin Texas 99% chance it went buffalo hunting during the period of the southern herd hunt.
The best way to expose yourself to as many original Sharps rifles as possible is to attend the annual SCA show it will be in Greeley , Colorado in may of 24. Next best way is just join the Sharps Collector Association where 3 times a year you will get a copy of the Sharps Collector Report a very high quality magazine that features articles on Sharps firearms in every issue famous ones to obscure ones. Every rifle has a story it could tell it takes the knowledge and perspective of the current owner to uncover it...bobw

Great post Bob!
The cost of a gun, and where it went to also have a huge influence on what they look like today! I was told by Dr. Labowski, and David Carter of the Sharps Collectors that those cheap Sharps A rifles have almost always either not survived, or if they did survive they are in horrible condition! Most went out West in 1880 and the Denver gun dealers of Gove and JP Lower bought the lion's share. Especially Gove who purchased 270 of them at $17-$18 each! At that price he could also sell them cheaply to hunters, so the inexpensive price made owners less likely to take good care of them as they would have a $34-$38 Sharps that earlier rifles cost.
My Freund Sharps started life as an A rifle, and was in a Feb. 1880 shipment of A rifles sent to Gove and Lower; mine going to Gove's shop. At some time later it was reworked by George Freund at his Durango, Co. shop, and has his stamp on the left side of the receiver. All the Freund Improvements are on the action.
It must have had a very tough life either by the owner, or as you mentioned later people who didn't appreciate it, as my friend got it in the 1960's and it was in deplorable condition. He had it fully restored, so it's lost much of it's originality beyond the Freund improvements, and markings. Like many A rifles it was originally built on an 1969 Sharps carbine action, but carbine loop was removed and holes plugged. Then the action was upgraded to 1874 parts, and fitted with a 30" full octagon .45-70 barrel, and plain wood.
None of that configuration remains today, as it's now a .50-140, with Gemmer style forearm and wiping rod, and deluxe wood. Without the factory records, and Freund improvements, there would be no history left to tell me how it became what it is now.

[bohemianway]

same for the Fort Griffin gun above it was acquired by an acquaintance. As received by a friend the but stock was broken off and it had been driven into the ground as a snubbing post. Luckily the breech block was left in and it was a later gun with the SN across the tang not the earlier down the tang since the tang was broke off and beat down by the sledge.

[marlinman93]

same for the Fort Griffin gun above it was acquired by an acquaintance. As received by a friend the but stock was broken off and it had been driven into the ground as a snubbing post. Luckily the breech block was left in and it was a later gun with the SN across the tang not the earlier down the tang since the tang was broke off and beat down by the sledge.

Glad you saved it from being a fence post! I'm sure a number of these old Sharps went for scrap metal, especially during the wars!
I have a Pope Ballard that an oldtimer found in a scrap pile at the curb during WWII. He was driving by and saw it leaned against the metal pile, and stopped to grab it. An even older lady came running out screaming at him to leave it alone! He convinced her to take it inside and promised to come right back with twice as much metal if he could have the Ballard. She agreed and he rushed home to get plenty of scrap metal so she'd do the trade!

[Ray Newman]

BobW & Marlin Man: great history lesson! Thanks.