44-77 Brass

[semtav]

maybe I should empty my coffee cans that have HDS Huntington's/Bell .44 basic as well as .44 Jamison .44-77 and .44-90 brass and order a new 77 Sharps.

In 40-50 SBN

[desert deuce]

IIRC, BACO did have interest in acquiring Jameson. However, soon into the process a situation fomenting among the then owners dissuaded BACO.
What it would have taken to acquire the equipment,,(AND),,the expertise to run and maintain it was challenge enough but who wants to spend a couple of years in court and may not get what was needed in the end? Had a GROUP of investors moved on it maybe a different matter but who knows today whether that is water under the bridge or not? Surely if the equipment still exists it may be possible. Mourning your individual situation or beseeching Starline is otherwise a waste of breath. Actually seeking to acquire the equipment and bringing it on line is another matter.

[Kurt]

maybe I should empty my coffee cans that have HDS Huntington's/Bell .44 basic as well as .44 Jamison .44-77 and .44-90 brass and order a new 77 Sharps.

In 40-50 SBN

Screen Shot 2020-01-03 at 10.25.51 AM 2.jpeg

[J.B.]

Now...nothing rash Kurt @ ... I'm feeding a 44 on opposite sides of the Pacifc so understand a little of the pain of locating brass. I started with some converted 348 Win. brass from BACo and then managed to 'just miss' Jamison's run before they ran foul of bureaucracy. A couple of orders with RMC had me up and running with perfectly matched brass, even if a little steeper than the drawn cases . This was a case ( pardon the pun) ...of a bit more money for what was available vs less money for a non existent product. Wasnt a hard decision really. No regrets. Then Captech came to the fore and brass was available again for a period of time for numerous much needed chamberings. Again a problem...and they too, ceased to be an option. BACo have again gone all out and produced 44/77 cases now based on Starlines 50/110 cases. These work well also. There may be some fine tuning needed for tighter tolerance chambers but they work. Actually preferred by some. BACo generally produces to demand as they do for moulds etc and while they may be held up currently, possibly due to lack of Starline base cases to work with, they may also be waiting on a sufficient back order to justify production of the product. A call to them will likely clear this up. I've a hundred on back order now...so if 'one' decides to add to this order to the tune of several hundred say ?, it would certainly help both our chances of a delivery sooner rather than later. Given our exchange rate currently , my combined cases probably cost as much or more than some of the rifles they are used in.
J.B.

[marlinman93]

I had a mish mash of different donor brass for my old Rolling Block in .44-77 and not a huge amount of any one brass. Maybe 50 of one donor at best. I still kept looking, and bought anything that could work if it wasn't too expensive.
Then a about 15 months ago I was offered an original Rolling Block Creedmoor rifle in .44-77 and along with it came 98 pcs. of Jamison brass! Between what I had and the new gun and brass I'm in better shape. But I still am constantly looking for more donor brass. I did pick up some Bell brass in .500 Nitro Express, and contemplated seeing if it could be reworked, but haven't checked dimensions yet to even see if that's a possibility.

[Kurt]

Gavin,

The .44 brass situation you have down under is also up here also.
When I planned on my first .44-77 Shiloh and the last couple .44-90 bf's I got a bunch of Bell .44 basic to make sure I had the shells for the rifles when I got them so I could shoot them. When Jamison started making shells for the 77 and the 90 again I got a bunch because I wanted to make sure that I would have them to replace lost or broken cases.
I have given 150 cases to a couple friends for the rifles they have on order so they can get to shoot them when they are in their hands. Now I have two .44-77 and two .44-90bn's left that I will shoot till I retire and when the grand Kids get them they will have enough to carry them through and pass the rifles on.
A rifle is no good if you cant feed it. I learned at a young age, make hay when the sun shines. This also goes for primers and the rest of the components.

Kurt

[Kurt]

I had a mish mash of different donor brass for my old Rolling Block in .44-77 and not a huge amount of any one brass. Maybe 50 of one donor at best. I still kept looking, and bought anything that could work if it wasn't too expensive.
Then a about 15 months ago I was offered an original Rolling Block Creedmoor rifle in .44-77 and along with it came 98 pcs. of Jamison brass! Between what I had and the new gun and brass I'm in better shape. But I still am constantly looking for more donor brass. I did pick up some Bell brass in .500 Nitro Express, and contemplated seeing if it could be reworked, but haven't checked dimensions yet to even see if that's a possibility.

The .500 nitro has a base diameter about .060" more than the .44 sharps.
That makes it pretty hard to swage down that much.

[bobw]

As long as Gavin is paying attention here. I have a question for him . In the past Bertram brass from Australia was not of the best reputation. How is the quality of Bertram brass these days? Bobw

[J.B.]

Just come back inside from the 95f & climbing temperatures. Forget how hot is normal ..when its been mild for a while. Paying attention ? ..Just a little Bob , I dont have any recent 'first hand' knowledge but I know the general feeling here from a few years back is that Bertram brass is
quite good. I did have a failed case with my 45/110 over 25 years ago but a letter to Bruce at the time, with the case enclosed was rewarded with a box of 20 new cases and an apology for what shouldnt have happened. Then Norma basic became available and having been keen on Norma brass in any loading, I swapped to them and never looked back. I never had another failure with Bertram but then I wasnt using the product much either.
When the 44/77 bug bit me... I was trying to source cases just during Jamisons closure time. That left me with BACo or RMC... or Bertram. I rang at the time and they had no 44/77 and the lass I spoke with said " we have thousands of 43 Spanish ..isnt that the same' ? She sent me up some two Spanish and two Mauser rounds to test but there was too much difference when compared to the correct cartridge... at least there was for me. I asked if they were planning to tool up for 44/77 Sharps but indications were 'not with thousands of Spanish cases sitting here'... 'Perhaps if you order 10,000 we can get a run done'. Across the board we could probably use 10,000 cases in a heart beat but I'm not in a position to order that many. I gather quite a few U.S. shooters had bad experiences with early Bertram brass..or at least they are the only experiences we here about. Would they revisit the brand if the product was available ? Sort of a catch 22 really... " if you build it...they will come" ..or perhaps.. " will they come" ? The Jamison product was so good it was a 'no brainer' so anything else needs to be pretty respectable. The C Sharps vs Shiloh rim thicknesses are different but not hugely so but the older Remingtons and possibly Sharps (? ) ran to the more generous. Once fired for ones rifle though, if not full length sized I would imagine the problem would 'go away' for most. I have sufficient cases but I'm always on the look out for more. As you say.. a bit of prior preparation and planning..etc etc. but then who knows when a business will fail, the law will get heavy handed or Covid will strike and allow the ignorant full sway.

G.

[martinibelgian]

FWIW, the 1st cases I bought for my no.2 Musket were Bertram, and the only failures were 'human-induced'. I still have those cases even if I retired them, but they are still good for use. That's after 20+ years. I might just load them up again after annealing...

[J.B.]

Well that's good to hear then. As I mentioned, I only had one failure and that was some time back. Since then I've used Bertram brass in 45/110, 45/75 and 40/70 Straight without issue but I stocked up with Norma for the 110 when it was available and pretty much rely on the BACo cases formed from 30/40 Krag for the 40/70. The BACo Krag cases do stretch on occasion but not unduly and its possibly my loading regime that's responsible and not a case fault. I'd certainly give Bertram a try for the 44 if the brass was available but I'd like it full length and correctly headstamped. Fireforming 44/77 cases in my Shilohs chamber tends to pull back on the length a bit as the shoulder fills out a tad. Ideally, I'd want my cases to be right at 2.25" or a hair over to start with.
..J.B.

[rkaires]

.43 Spanish brass.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categori ... 43-SPANISH

[marlinman93]

I had a mish mash of different donor brass for my old Rolling Block in .44-77 and not a huge amount of any one brass. Maybe 50 of one donor at best. I still kept looking, and bought anything that could work if it wasn't too expensive.
Then a about 15 months ago I was offered an original Rolling Block Creedmoor rifle in .44-77 and along with it came 98 pcs. of Jamison brass! Between what I had and the new gun and brass I'm in better shape. But I still am constantly looking for more donor brass. I did pick up some Bell brass in .500 Nitro Express, and contemplated seeing if it could be reworked, but haven't checked dimensions yet to even see if that's a possibility.

The .500 nitro has a base diameter about .060" more than the .44 sharps.
That makes it pretty hard to swage down that much.

Thanks.
Looks like I'd need to do some lathe work to thin down the area above the rim if I use these. I may need to dissect one case to see how thick they are first before taking .030" off the diameter to get them down .060" smaller.

[Kurt]

I had a mish mash of different donor brass for my old Rolling Block in .44-77 and not a huge amount of any one brass. Maybe 50 of one donor at best. I still kept looking, and bought anything that could work if it wasn't too expensive.
Then a about 15 months ago I was offered an original Rolling Block Creedmoor rifle in .44-77 and along with it came 98 pcs. of Jamison brass! Between what I had and the new gun and brass I'm in better shape. But I still am constantly looking for more donor brass. I did pick up some Bell brass in .500 Nitro Express, and contemplated seeing if it could be reworked, but haven't checked dimensions yet to even see if that's a possibility.

The .500 nitro has a base diameter about .060" more than the .44 sharps.
That makes it pretty hard to swage down that much.

Thanks.
Looks like I'd need to do some lathe work to thin down the area above the rim if I use these. I may need to dissect one case to see how thick they are first before taking .030" off the diameter to get them down .060" smaller.

Taking that much off with the lathe would make it pretty thin.
I cut some cases to check how much I can turn the base down and the taper is pretty slight. The thickness runs .036" +- about .125" up from the bottom. I ended up making a swage die with a slight EZ edge so it would not strip the case wall when it got tight and pushed the case up to the rim then I could turn off a slight rise that did not swage down above the rim.

IMG_1497.jpeg

[Kurt]

I found the photo of what might happen with turning that slight roll off the base.

IMG_2411 2.JPG