Ladder test.

[ian45662]

Ours seem to have been pretty forgiving. I will be shooting my wife’s rifle and I have never actually really put it on paper. I have just loaded her ammo with the same loads that my rifle seemed to like and she has done good for her with it. I am curious to see what it can actually do. I will have to take the stock off of my rifle and put it on hers though. It’s way to short for me.

[Kurt]

Heck, just take the EZ way out and duct tape on a couple 2X2 blocks on

[ian45662]

I’ll take some pictures.

[SFogler]

Kurt,
In the first picture you posted I see 7 groups and five of them have two shots close and one farther away; and the group with the 9 shots has the same tendency - 6 holes closer and 3 farther away. I have exactly the same thing going on when I test and it happens no matter the day or the load and with steady wind. A 200 yard five shot group will have 3 very close and two farther away but those two very close. It is not the first three fired then two off - it is in any combination of shots and from a warm barrel with consistent fouling control. What's up with that?

[ian45662]

I did 4 tests yesterday and it looks like we might have some data. I will not show the results of the swiss 1.5 and the money bullet since nothing seemed to come together with that. If you look at the bottom left of each of the little cards you will see the starting charge and the velocity. I numbered which shot it was on the target. The shots were taken in order of least amount of powder to most. As I sit here typing I am starting to think that a more scientific way would be to take them at random. Keeping track of which charge you were shooting but not shooting them in order and see if the charges in the sweet spot still come together. Maybe next time. For now I will make up at least 3 10 shot loads using charges that are in the middle of those sweet spots. My plan here is to maybe use the Creedmoor for everything but rams and use the money with the 3F load on rams.. Will have to see what the 10 shot groups look like first

[ian45662]

Hopefully you guys can make sense of my chicken scratches.

[Kurt]

Kurt,
In the first picture you posted I see 7 groups and five of them have two shots close and one farther away; and the group with the 9 shots has the same tendency - 6 holes closer and 3 farther away. I have exactly the same thing going on when I test and it happens no matter the day or the load and with steady wind. A 200 yard five shot group will have 3 very close and two farther away but those two very close. It is not the first three fired then two off - it is in any combination of shots and from a warm barrel with consistent fouling control. What's up with that?

That multi shot group marked with a circle are just odd and end left over loads I take to foul the barrel and warm it up before I test the loads.

But yes I see two groups at times too but mostly with the .50-2.5 after many shots fired. They are mostly oblique groups.

[Kurt]

Ian,

With all of those loads fired there sure is not much of a velocity increase between the bottom and top powder load.
That sort of makes one wonder why not just use the old Lyman 55 and flip the clapper and dump the powder in the case instead weighing to the exact weight.

[ian45662]

Yea I’m with ya. It certainly does seem that way. For now I’m just looking for a sweet spot but once I have found it I may try just setting my regular powder thrower to a certain weight and then just go to town. I am using a charge master to throw these and it is pretty quick. While it throws a charge compress a load and thumb seat a bullet. When I put the loaded round into my box the charge master has another load ready. If it craps out though I may just get one of those Harrels powder throwers and just do it that way.

[desert deuce]

Well Ian, you have now illustrated the problem I mentioned elsewhere about how to see and plot bullet strikes when they go in the same hole.
Moreover, I have to admonish you when reverting to science that science is not going to tell you much about bullet holes in a target. Only the target is going to help you out there.
Incidentally, before mentioning science in relation to black powder cartridge rifle shooting you will be well served to consult with Aviator first before leaping down that rabbit hole.

[gunlaker]

Yea I’m with ya. It certainly does seem that way. For now I’m just looking for a sweet spot but once I have found it I may try just setting my regular powder thrower to a certain weight and then just go to town. I am using a charge master to throw these and it is pretty quick. While it throws a charge compress a load and thumb seat a bullet. When I put the loaded round into my box the charge master has another load ready. If it craps out though I may just get one of those Harrels powder throwers and just do it that way.

Ian,

Another thing that I often do when building established loads for practice, is to use my MVA measure to dump a powder charge. Then I put it into my electronic scale. If it's within +/- 0.3 grain or so of my desired weight then I drop tube it into the case. Anything that somehow comes out too light or heavy goes back into the hopper. That way you can quickly make up a bunch of practice loads that will be super accurate, at least out to 200 & 300 yards where I do most testing.

Chris.

[semtav]

For now I’m just looking for a sweet spot but once I have found it I may try just setting my regular powder thrower to a certain weight and then just go to town.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and show my ignorance (well I may have fallen off that limb a long time ago) but isn't the whole purpose of a ladder test to find a node is so one can be a tenth or two either side of the desired weight without affecting accuracy?

Has anyone found an accurate load that doesn't fall in a node as long as the weight is kept at very close tolerances.

[ian45662]

I think I have found it. I would just like to verify with some 10 shot group that’s in the middle of that node. It looks like I could be a couple tenths in either direction and still be in the clear.

[desert deuce]

If you listen to SEMTAV much at all you may soon find yourself diapering otherwise perfectly good bullets and pillaging landfills.

[art ruggiero]

i would think that 1 tenth grain is meaningless no one can hold that close jmo art