[quote=Kurt post_id=345314 time=1704991184 user_id=1788]
Most of my .44's have 1/19 twists and I seen 18 twist and fast twist .45's with less hits at Alliance and the Quigley and a couple other long range paper matches.
No I never won a National Match, I don't shoot them but I have seen some of the top National Champ shooters below my name at the end of the Quigley so I feel my 19 twist .44-90 bn and the .44-77 will stand up against the faster twist rifles.
Bill Bagwell was a shooter, a fine shot and we spent a lot of time talking bullets and loads. We talked bullets and alloys and the subject was on the Lyman 457-121 PH a lot of times because he knew I favored it for a hunting bullet and he said he shot with a guy shooting the .45-110 at long range on a windy day and his 110 had a hard time making contact where his 121 PH stayed on the iron. Bill liked his slow twist Shiloh. I have 17 and 16 twist .44's and I see no difference in what they are capable of.
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So you keep mentioning the Quigley match, it is a fun time I returned there this year myself.
It isn’t a real good measurement of accuracy, it’s an all sitting match, with a single offhand target. 805 yards is the longest distance, where quigley ends Creedmoor begins.
Bill Bagwell was my friend and we shot together several times at my range, the bullet you mentioned shot fairly well, at the distances we shot yet it took a very good spotter to get him on target as I recall. Perhaps he failed to mention that? I know he set a range record at my 600 target 48/50 yet he refused to do what I gave him for a wind correction. Anyone shooting iron sights and arguing a correction from someone with a 27X scope who sees exactly where you just hit, suffers from hubris and has a bad case of it. After the shot he admitted he should have done what I had told him to do. As he would have had a perfect score, Sidra gave him a sound chewing out. His friend had offered to spot for him to give him the best chance of Winning the midrange match, which he did.
Did he ever mention that? The morning your talking about and bill reference too, I had just finished 6 nights of graveyard shifts at the and had drove 130 miles too meet him at my range.
not a wink of sleep in almost 20 hours. The next day was the match, perhaps Bill failed to mention how I shot that day? Or perhaps he failed to mention the groups I shot at 800-900 yards testing Express with him at my range? On a separate occasion.
Bill used that bullet at Raton the one time he shot a Raton Creedmoor he made master, yet he was far far from the winners circle.
Now….aren’t you t fella that tried some sort of lube bullets were dipped into sheep tallow at a match some years ago? I seem to recall a fella with a 50 caliber cleaning rod and his 40 cal jag pulling lead out your barrel like ribbons of lead at the Shiloh match. Perhaps you remember that, that guy helped you? Maybe your memory fails you on that one. As I recall my score at that particular match was very far above yours. And silhouette isn’t exactly my forte.
Do you remember badgering me at the quigley this year? Asking stupid questions as to what you had ever done to me? And I kept telling you to walk away. I have several witnesses to that exchange, Brian Haffey, Jimbo Ed Himmelhoch.
Bill was good at telling part of a story, and then you tell even less of the story. Seems to be a running trait of yours and yet you got the gall to ask why. Just another example as to why I feel about you.
I despise people giving bad advice that as old bill was fond of saying “will wad them up for a few years.” Bill used to get on me for sharing what I had found saying, “they will use that against you in a match and maybe beat you.” That was probably Bill’s greatest failing, in otherwise a good guy. He acted like it was some rite of passage in Bpcr perhaps you do too?
I want to share what I learned and shorten the learning curve for other shooters. And not “Wad” them up. That’s a quote not my words
I got bad advice from several on here including Bill when I started PP, and others. In 2007. After finding out that the undersize bullet and my fouling regimen were giving me a miss dirt digger every 3rd or so shot, I nearly quit after spending a lot of money to go to phoenix to shoot. After that crash and burn from bad bad advice on this very forum, I definitely got wadded up. Gave me a whole new perspective on my so called friends, even the guy I got all that lead out of his barrel.
In 2008 I set a world record group in Pedersoli’s 5@200 5 shots in 1.336 inches. Most of what Info I got from Dan Theodore got me to that point. By 2013 I dragged out my old Hell Bitch rifle for Phoenix with a .446 money bullet I designed with wet patched Seth Cole paper, win the Scoped Winter national’s the last day after 800-900 I was setting 3rd overall with PP. I went on to Raton and won the Scope Nationals there in the same year.
Bill did help me get a load worked out that I can load and shoot for hunting with that undersized bullet and thick paper. And a big 3/8 inch grease cookie but I have never shot it past 200 yards in my Business rifle it certainly isn’t a target rifle load it’s at best a 2.5 MOA load. But it’s killed 4 buffalo. I have tested it to 17 rounds one after another with just a couple breaths into the breach.
Wadding up Viking for a couple of years is about all the advice I am seeing here, I personally don’t like that.
So Kurt…. You look yourself in the mirror and ask your self why, and do not bother asking me again.
Kenny W.