NRA

[desert deuce]

Need a lot more information before any sort of consensus can be reached

[JonnyV]

I agree.. no money headed to NRA headquarters until I'm satisfied that things are on the right track. Been sending these back for many years at this point.....

[SSShooter]

Go NY AG. Hope she rips the NRA a new one and gets rid of the rest of lapierre's cronies so we can get the NRA back to doing what it is supposed to be doing with our $$. I'll believe it when I see it. Lapierre was not alone................

spoken like a true leftist democrat. To support a democrat AG you must really hate this country. Your democrat leaders blind you to the fact that this has nothing to do with justice, but just another part of the plan to destroy the 2nd amendment.

Spoken like the obviously small-minded person that you are. Life is very simple for you.
wlp and his board need to go. The trial will likely show what his/their golden parachute consists of and, hopefully, they will be forced (including their buddies, the attorneys they've paid $$millions of our money) to give it back. Sad its come to this, but seems to be the only way as we, the members, have not voted them out.

[Cessnapilot89]

I just hope this means a new era of a better NRA is about to begin.

[RK]

Go NY AG. Hope she rips the NRA a new one and gets rid of the rest of lapierre's cronies so we can get the NRA back to doing what it is supposed to be doing with our $$. I'll believe it when I see it. Lapierre was not alone................

spoken like a true leftist democrat. To support a democrat AG you must really hate this country. Your democrat leaders blind you to the fact that this has nothing to do with justice, but just another part of the plan to destroy the 2nd amendment.

Spoken like the obviously small-minded person that you are. Life is very simple for you.
wlp and his board need to go. The trial will likely show what his/their golden parachute consists of and, hopefully, they will be forced (including their buddies, the attorneys they've paid $$millions of our money) to give it back. Sad its come to this, but seems to be the only way as we, the members, have not voted them out.

It’s hard to believe you could be so dumb that you think the Attorney General is orchestrating all this because Wayne Lapierre is miss using your dues. Your Democrats are going after Wayne Lapierre to destroy the NRA, that is their mission, a weakened or destroyed NRA. If Democrats are interested in justice, they could start with our open border, and all the other terrible things happening to our country under the Biden regime. It was you that got on this forum to post shit about Donald Trump. Then you voted for Biden. Why don’t you tell the entire Shiloh membership all the wonderful things Joe Biden has done to this country and what he wants to do to the Second Amendment and the gun community, especially Bidens dream of suing gun manufacturers, like Shiloh, into bankruptcy. Haven’t seen you give the same scrutiny to Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and all the Democrats that have become filthy rich by miss using our tax dollars. You will not scrutinize them the same way you do Wayne LaPierre because you are a Democrat. That means the only standard you have, is a double standard. I don’t give a shit for Wayne LaPierre. He needs to go, but he is no different than the CEO of the company I worked for,or the people who run many charities, or many of our representatives in Congress, or our president, and this list could go on and on. I joined the NRA 45 years ago. I did this because they fight for the Second Amendment. That means they fight Democrats. Yes life can be that simple when you analyze it.

[SFogler]

It’s hard to believe you could be so dumb that you think the Attorney General is orchestrating all this because Wayne Lapierre is miss using your dues. Your Democrats are going after Wayne Lapierre to destroy the NRA, that is their mission, a weakened or destroyed NRA. If Democrats are interested in justice, they could start with our open border, and all the other terrible things happening to our country under the Biden regime. It was you that got on this forum to post shit about Donald Trump. Then you voted for Biden. Why don’t you tell the entire Shiloh membership all the wonderful things Joe Biden has done to this country and what he wants to do to the Second Amendment and the gun community, especially Bidens dream of suing gun manufacturers, like Shiloh, into bankruptcy. Haven’t seen you give the same scrutiny to Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and all the Democrats that have become filthy rich by miss using our tax dollars. You will not scrutinize them the same way you do Wayne LaPierre because you are a Democrat. That means the only standard you have, is a double standard. I don’t give a shit for Wayne LaPierre. He needs to go, but he is no different than the CEO of the company I worked for,or the people who run many charities, or many of our representatives in Congress, or our president, and this list could go on and on. I joined the NRA 45 years ago. I did this because they fight for the Second Amendment. That means they fight Democrats. Yes life can be that simple when you analyze it.

X2

[Ray Newman]

RK: Agree with what you wrote.

[RK]

When Bill Clinton was president, he got on TV at the presidential podium and announced to us that we will have to give up our guns and take up bowling. The NRA jumped into action. Midterm elections were coming up, and the NRA sent letters to all of the membership detailing each candidates previous history of how they voted on Second Amendment rights. They were assigned an A through F rating on their support of the second amendment. Clintons dreams of taking our guns away went up in flames, as he lost the Democratic majority in Congress. I myself read on the front page of the Cleveland plain dealer an angry Clinton, declaring the NRA stole Congress and his gun agenda away from him. He was blaming the NRA. I can honestly say I don’t care if the devil himself was running the NRA at that point. A furious Chuck Schumer proposed a bill that would make it illegal for the NRA to badmouth any Democrats an upcoming elections. This is why I pay my NRA dues, that single victory was worth every penny I paid. Destroying the NRA has been a wet dream of Democrats for many years. That is the agenda of this Democrat, Attorney General.

[semtav]

Might read a few unbiased articles like the one from Danielle Wallace from Fox before we all flame each other.

James may just unwittingly be doing us all a favor.

[sackett]

This is an interesting read from Jeff Knox that I found on the Campfire via Ammoland (https://www.ammoland.com/2024/01/wayne- ... -now-what/) :

Wayne LaPierre, longtime Executive Vice President and CEO of the National Rifle Association, announced his retirement today, citing “health reasons.”

LaPierre’s departure from the organization is scheduled for the end of January and surprised casual NRA members and outside observers. However, I had speculated that LaPierre might try to step out of the Association rather than wait to be forced out by a judge.

The question now is, how this might impact the NRA’s position in the trial that’s scheduled to start Monday in New York. Read my article posted yesterday for more background on the trial.

Having LaPierre out of office probably helps the NRA’s overall case somewhat, but it won’t get the NRA insiders and longtime Board members off the hook.

The judge has ruled that arguments from the NRA claiming that they’ve “course corrected” and fixed the problems are admissible in the opening, guilt or innocence, jury phase of the trial, as is evidence of problems going back over twenty years. [Note: A previous version of this article incorrectly stated that these arguments would not be allowed.]

The New York AG’s Office has entered a long litany of complaints against the NRA, LaPierre, Former Treasurer Woody Phillips, LaPierre’s former deputy Josh Powell, and NRA Secretary and General Counsel John Frazer. All of those complaints involve LaPierre, either as a direct participant or as the person who allowed the bad behavior to happen. Looking at the evidence and arguments that have been made public so far, the case being put forward by the NY AG appears to be a slam dunk. LaPierre himself has admitted under oath to most of the things he’s accused of while agreeing with or claiming ignorance regarding most of the charges against the other defendants. Others have also admitted to much of what’s charged, claiming ignorance or “that’s just how we’ve always done it.”

Former Treasurer Phillips reportedly fired from his previous job for embezzlement, has extensively used his right to remain silent.

The only serious defense offered by LaPierre or anyone at NRA over the past 4+ years since this scandal broke has been the repeated claim that LaPierre discovered the problems in the NRA’s policies and procedures and initiated corrective actions in late 2017 or early 2018. They argue that “course corrections” were made, and new policies and procedures were implemented.

None of that will be helpful in the jury phase of the trial. These assertions ring pretty hollow for the remediation phase as well since no significant punitive action has ever been taken against those involved, there’s been no serious effort to claw back much of the millions of dollars that were allegedly misappropriated, and the new and improved policies and procedures have been summarily ignored and bypassed by LaPierre and others on multiple occasions, just as the old policies and procedures were.

With LaPierre’s announced retirement, speculation is leaning toward a possible settlement agreement with NY AG. While that might be someone’s hope, it seems highly unlikely that either the NY AG or the judge would go for a settlement at this stage.

The AG’s office expressed surprise over the move but said they intend to continue pursuing the case as before and that LaPierre’s announced resignation would not impact their prosecution.

AG James hates the NRA as much as she hates Donald Trump and wants to see both buried. Her staff has put together a very solid case that’s cost a lot of time and money. It’s hard to imagine her letting the NRA off the hook at this point. The judge in the case has expressed concern for the NRA members. I don’t think he would allow any settlement that didn’t include substantial reorganization of the Association, including removal of a number of officers and executives and hopefully a total revamp of the NRA Board.

The Board remained in executive Session for several hours after LaPierre’s resignation announcement, presumably being briefed on the Association’s legal strategy going forward and probably being lectured about the importance of staying the course, remaining unified, and keeping Bill Brewer – the $2 million per month attorney that’s been running the show for the past five years – in control of legal strategy.

LaPierre’s resignation has been in the works for at least a month, as that’s when LaPierre fired Joe DeBergalis as Executive Director of General Operations and replaced him with Andrew Arulanandam. That move makes it clear that Arulanandam was hand-picked by LaPierre and Brewer to take over as EVP and CEO, which is a very good reason for NRA members to be very skeptical about him.

It’s also important to note that LaPierre remains in office for now. He could have stepped down effective immediately but instead chose to retain control until the end of the month, which includes most, if not all, of the jury phase of the trial in the NY suit.

The official NRA press release announcing LaPierre’s intention to resign included the announcement that he will be replaced by Andrew Arulanandam.

NRA EVP Wayne LaPierre Announces Resignation from NRA

The National Rifle Association of America (NRA) announced today that Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre announced he is stepping down from his position as chief executive of the organization, effective January 31.… pic.twitter.com/GbGBWktu7C

— NRA (@NRA) January 5, 2024

That’s not the way this is supposed to work. According to the NRA Bylaws, the Executive Director of NRA General Operations is supposed to step up in the case of a vacancy in the office of EVP, but that’s only if the vacancy occurs unexpectedly between Board meetings. It is the responsibility of the NRA Board, not the EVP, to select a replacement for a departing EVP. The press release makes it clear that LaPierre fully expected the Board to rubber-stamp his choice, which they probably did, again demonstrating the ineffectiveness of the 76-member Board.

Where things go from here is anyone’s guess. The trial is scheduled to start on Monday, January 8th, 2024. The NY AG has a rock-solid case. The Manhattan jury is unlikely to be at all sympathetic to the NRA or its “leaders.” The judge appears to be pretty fed-up with Brewer’s round-robin motions and delaying tactics and frustrated with the lack of clear representation for rank-and-file NRA members.

Taking all of that into account, I think it’s likely that the AG’s office will continue to pursue the case diligently, and the jury will “convict” on every complaint and point the AG brings. The judge will insist on a major overhaul of the Association, hopefully including removing all of the officers, if not dissolution of the entire Board, and clawing back LaPierre’s golden parachute. I think all of this will happen regardless of what the NRA does or tries to do. That’s just my best guess, though.

For now, it’s on to New York and the trial.

About Jeff Knox:

Jeff Knox is a second-generation political activist and director of The Firearms Coalition. His father, Neal Knox led many of the early gun rights battles for your right to keep and bear arms. Read Neal Knox – The Gun Rights War.

The Firearms Coalition is a loose-knit coalition of individual Second Amendment activists, clubs, and civil rights organizations. Founded by Neal Knox in 1984, the organization supports grassroots activists through education, analysis of current issues, and a historical perspective of the gun rights movement. The Firearms Coalition has offices in Buckeye, Arizona, and Manassas, VA. Visit www.FirearmsCoalition.org.

[marlinman93]

Don't forget WLP's golden parachute clause to his contract! He may be gone, but the NRA will continue to pay him a hefty retirement as long as he's alive. It wont be as high as his pay plus ill gotten gains were, but I'm told it's as good as his salary was.

[desert deuce]

"The only serious defense offered by LaPierre or anyone at NRA over the past 4+ years since this scandal broke has been the repeated claim that LaPierre discovered the problems in the NRA’s policies and procedures and initiated corrective actions in late 2017 or early 2018. They argue that “course corrections” were made, and new policies and procedures were implemented."

Remembering Competitions Division pushing BPTR out of NRA 2015-2018, then other disciplines to unsatisfactory venues and general ramping down of competitive shooting and firearms related training and activities that followed.

Those training activities were/are part of the NRA Mission that supported their existence. Which makes one wonder if it wasn't planned destruction of which WLP was fully aware?

Wonder what a full independent audit may reveal?

(See another thread on this general subject.)

[desert deuce]

How about a wait and see scramble to resume NRA interest in Regional and National level matches.

[desert deuce]

Re: Trends in BPCR Long Range Shooting
Post by desert deuce » Fri Jan 05, 2024 5:28 pm

While that may prove a worthy goal for the very distant future there is a lot of foundational work that has to be, must be, done first. And, it has nothing to do with Competitions Division, NRA, et al, rather who we can trust among us because that was the previous and present, fatal flaw, problem we had to deal with. Traitors within our ranks operating in their own self interest. Is history repeating itself? Consider the following.

It seems some are forgetting the results of the 2015 & 2016 NRA position and demands on BPTR shooters articulated by Black Powder Committee and Competitions Division for the NRA leadership. Not to mention influential traitor competitors. Changes at Competitions Division is irrelevant, Black Powder Committe, is not credible and I have verified recently, continues to occupy a hostile mind set.

To Quote NRA in official Black Powder Committee meeting: "We want Black Powder Target Shooting out of the NRA and we are giving you, (Zack Taylor), a few weeks to make that happen." And suggesting we engage NRA today may either be ignorant of history or are recommending we repeat it is suspect on its face. Or maybe some folks think we are, I like the Mexican word for stupid, Pendejo!

Granted, because we pretty much knew what was coming then, somewhat of a transition acceptable to both sides may have been accomplished, however, that was never in the cards. Tyrants are always my way or the highway. Remember that when dealing with the NRA!

Pointing to the obvious, the NRA plan was for there being no Nationals in 2017 plus the 2017 awards carried the date 2016 on them. It was pretty clear NRA did not plan for 2017 to happen, much less 2018. Remember the short time frame demanded for entries, much shorter than advertised?

And, after BPTR's departure, NRA wanted the competitors to pay for NRA keeping national records and scores which they had not been doing anyway. Obvious parting shot/middle finger to NRA members.

Does anyone recall Steve Rhoades, the premier figure in BPTR at the time, being assigned to the silhouette committee rather than the Black Powder Committee where he belonged? Hmm, and just why do you think that happened? You think maybe it was already known at NRA HQ that Target going away was a foregone conclusion? Primarily people claiming to be the saviors of silhouette working against target, perhaps? Hmmm?

Anybody remember the skullduggery surrounding the move to Ridgeway and dual qualifying nationals, one east the other west, climaxing in a final, 3rd, match to decide the National Champion that never happened for silhouette? All lead by Judas Goats working in their own interests rather than what was obviously the greater good? How soon we forget. Pendejo again? No, probably not. Judas was one of the twelve, so, why should we assume we are exempt from traitors?

Consider this: NRA is/was solely responsible for the death of BPTR and BPCR competition at Raton, and only now, looking away from their failure nationwide back to the successes at Raton of the .22 matches and their success with big bore silhouette attached has hastened to enlist someone from their cadre to represent NRA's interests at Raton should raise a huge question mark. WHY, did NRA do this?

This is history that should be impossible to forget and information markers should clearly resonate with all shooters. So why is it being promoted at this point in time? Does not pass the smell test.

Let's wait and see the concrete being poured for footers during the current resurrection of the Byers matches before blindly rushing into another NRA sponsored ambush.

While we all desire a positive outcome, as Kenny might say, "Something does not jive."
Re: Trends in BPCR Long Range Shooting
Post by desert deuce » Fri Jan 05, 2024 5:28 pm

While that may prove a worthy goal for the very distant future there is a lot of foundational work that has to be, must be, done first. And, it has nothing to do with Competitions Division, NRA, et al, rather who we can trust among us because that was the previous and present, fatal flaw, problem we had to deal with. Traitors within our ranks operating in their own self interest. Is history repeating itself? Consider the following.

It seems some are forgetting the results of the 2015 & 2016 NRA position and demands on BPTR shooters articulated by Black Powder Committee and Competitions Division for the NRA leadership. Not to mention influential traitor competitors. Changes at Competitions Division is irrelevant, Black Powder Committe, is not credible and I have verified recently, continues to occupy a hostile mind set.

To Quote NRA in official Black Powder Committee meeting: "We want Black Powder Target Shooting out of the NRA and we are giving you, (Zack Taylor), a few weeks to make that happen." And suggesting we engage NRA today may either be ignorant of history or are recommending we repeat it is suspect on its face. Or maybe some folks think we are, I like the Mexican word for stupid, Pendejo!

Granted, because we pretty much knew what was coming then, somewhat of a transition acceptable to both sides may have been accomplished, however, that was never in the cards. Tyrants are always my way or the highway. Remember that when dealing with the NRA!

Pointing to the obvious, the NRA plan was for there being no Nationals in 2017 plus the 2017 awards carried the date 2016 on them. It was pretty clear NRA did not plan for 2017 to happen, much less 2018. Remember the short time frame demanded for entries, much shorter than advertised?

And, after BPTR's departure, NRA wanted the competitors to pay for NRA keeping national records and scores which they had not been doing anyway. Obvious parting shot/middle finger to NRA members.

Does anyone recall Steve Rhoades, the premier figure in BPTR at the time, being assigned to the silhouette committee rather than the Black Powder Committee where he belonged? Hmm, and just why do you think that happened? You think maybe it was already known at NRA HQ that Target going away was a foregone conclusion? Primarily people claiming to be the saviors of silhouette working against target, perhaps? Hmmm?

Anybody remember the skullduggery surrounding the move to Ridgeway and dual qualifying nationals, one east the other west, climaxing in a final, 3rd, match to decide the National Champion that never happened for silhouette? All lead by Judas Goats working in their own interests rather than what was obviously the greater good? How soon we forget. Pendejo again? No, probably not. Judas was one of the twelve, so, why should we assume we are exempt from traitors?

Consider this: NRA is/was solely responsible for the death of BPTR and BPCR competition at Raton, and only now, looking away from their failure nationwide back to the successes at Raton of the .22 matches and their success with big bore silhouette attached has hastened to enlist someone from their cadre to represent NRA's interests at Raton should raise a huge question mark. WHY, did NRA do this?

This is history that should be impossible to forget and information markers should clearly resonate with all shooters. So why is it being promoted at this point in time? Does not pass the smell test.

Let's wait and see the concrete being poured for footers during the current resurrection of the Byers matches before blindly rushing into another NRA sponsored ambush.

While we all desire a positive outcome, as Kenny might say, "Something does not jive."

[jackrabbit]

Being involved in or watching a loved one be involved in an abusive relationship is one of the most heartbreaking things. Those on the outside cannot fathom why the individual would willingly go back into such a bad situation . The hope always is that it this time it will be different. The truth is it never is and the only good solution is to distance yourself as much as possible from that situation. Until the person being abused comes to this realization, they will continue to go back.

By any reasonable analysis BPCR/BPTR has existed in an abusive relationship with NRA Competitions for sometime. The truth is next time will be no different than it has been over and over. We as a group can continue to place false hope on the idea next time will be different, or we start something new. We have no control in the NRA and are absolutely subject to whatever decisions they may make. If shooters would come to this understanding and rally around a new organization made up of shooters, an opportunity exists to have something truly great.

As has been demonstrated by recent failures, if the new group is to be successful it cannot be dictated by a single person. It also has to be generally supported. That means being able to go along with minor things you may not necessarily like, being giving of time and money, and not standing on the sidelines shouting criticism.

It seems we at a fork in the road. Which one do we take? The choice is ours, but I can tell you I will not be taking the fork that leads back to the NRA.

Cody Smith