New to me Shiloh Sharps & Considering Blackpowder

[RandallM]

Everyone,

Well, I have a new to me Shiloh Sharps configured as follows. 45-70 (45 calibre 2 1/10"), 30" half octagon, half round barrel (Unsure if it's the heavy version or not), Standard Grade Wood, Pewter Tip Forearm, Standard metal buttplate, Double set triggers, Kelly Silhouette Soule Sight, Kelly Long Globe Front Sight. (Photo Link Below)

https://postimg.cc/gallery/j0gK8qJr

When I purchased the rifle, I was only thinking about reloading smokeless, in part because I also have a Browning Model 1886 Hi-Grade lever action. I've got a Forster press, dies, plenty of large rifle primers, 45-70 brass, smokeless powder and a variety of bullets for both rifles. I've also got Swiss 2F and Swiss 2F (Caviar) black powder, and a Lee casting pot and molds for my black powder muzzleloaders.

However, following all the conversations here, I've become intrigued with loading black powder for the Sharps. But, in order to try this out, I'd like to buy some minimal additional components on the black powder side to see if I'm willing to take it all on. So, what I don't have is over powder wads, pinches, or bullets, so I'm looking for suggestions & recommendations for those. I don't want to get into casting alloys and molds for the Sharps yet, nor dealing with lube related issues, or paper patch in the beginning.

So, I've been looking at Buffalo Arms for options with bullets etc, but am a little bit lost when it comes to the options. They do have item 459545 which looks somewhat similar to the Paul Jones 45001, however it's currently out of stock. And, I have no idea if that's simply too heavy to start with for the 45-70 either.

So, I'd appreciate any suggestions from the group.

Thanks in advance.

[Don McDowell]

One of the better bullets BACO offers is the 525 gr money bullet. The 535 works well, but the cream of the crop is in my opinion the copy of the original postel. Cast any of those from 16-1 or 20-1.
You may run into a problem with any brass that has been fired in your other rifle, especially if you've been using smokeless, is the cases will need quite a bit of resizing to fit in the chamber of the shiloh.
Once you have cases fire formed for the Shiloh, then best accuracy will likely be found with unsized cases.

[JonnyV]

I started off, more or less the same as you. I was fairly convinced that I didn’t want to load black powder, and I had various reasons for thinking that way. Once I attended my first Quigley shoot and saw the potential accuracy of black powder and how much better those rifle seem to perform then with smokeless, I changed my mind. Now I almost can’t remember the last round of smokeless powder I fired.

Your plan to start small is all well and good. I would contact Buffalo Arms and buy a minimum of 5 pounds of powder so that you get the decent shipping rate. You might also try to source some bullets from Buffalo Arms as they will come with lube that’s appropriate for black powder. Once you start loading black powder, you can’t load bullets anymore from commercial casters because their lubes will most likely contain petroleum products, which will really mess up your barrel when it combines with the black powder fouling. You’ll also need to get a drop tube from Buffalo Arms. The press and dies that you have now will work just fine, but you will need a compression die.

Once you actually load and shoot a few rounds of black powder, I’m willing to bet 100 bucks that within six months, you’ll be loading black powder for that lever action too! Good luck!

[RandallM]

Appreciate the notes.

As far as brass, I've got plenty of new unfired brass, and would likely not use the same brass for smokeless and BP. Have plenty of powder, no issues there, though mine is all 2F, not 1.5F which seems a bit more popular in discussions.

Need to buy, 100 (or more) bullets, pre-cast, pre-lubed to get me started, so that was a reccomendation question in terms of specific bullets in stock (hopefully). ?? Need overpower wads of some type and thickness. Not sure where to start their either.

As far as matches or ranges, nothing is near me (within a 2 hour drive) at all, other than one 100-yard outdoor range. So, as much as I'd eventually like to get extended ranges, that's a completely different conversation in terms of logistics. Fortunately, I'm retired, so if I want to go, I can, though I can't see a lot of drives out to Montana or Arizona.

[marlinman93]

If you have even the most basic wood working skills you can make a drop tube. Just a 2"x4" and an old aluminum arrow shaft, plus a few small hardware store bits. I doubt I've got more than a couple bucks in mine?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p2koNe ... =TheKoba49

I just use rubber O rings fitted over my tube to set the height of the tube, and a spare RCBS funnel over the top of the arrow shaft.

[Don McDowell]

BACO does sell precast and lubed bullets. Generally if things like bullets or moulds are shown out of stock a call to them and place an order for that item will get filled in good time.
1 1/2 is a popular powder, but 2f works quite well.

[RandallM]

I guess the whole conversation with drop tubes, added another factor.

My existing funnel and drop tubes for smokeless, run about 8" of drop. The video and other examples I've seen obviously show much longer drop tubes, up to about 24" I guess.

So, drop tube or compression die for loading?

[Don McDowell]

The funnel and drop you have now will work just fine just slow pour the powder in
Chances are pretty good you’re going to need a compression die anyway
Which if you’re using Lyman RCBS or Saeco dies the ecpader die will work fine

[gunlaker]

I'd call Buffalo Arms directly. There is a good chance they cast them to order. That's how their molds work, so they are usually out of stock until you order one .

You'll be able to get a lot of different bullet profiles to shoot well in that Shiloh. If you need something that's in stock. pick anything in a softish aloy like 1:20 or so, and 0.459" diameter. You will probably be able to slip fit a 0.460" bullet in a fired case. Both of my recently built 45-70 Shiloh's will.

That 459545 Creedmoor bullet sounds heavy, but your rifle will shoot it nicely to the rams. While it's not my first choice, it's still a pretty decent one.

Chris.

[DaveC]

You ought to get Venturino and Garbe’s SPG BP Cartridge Reloading Primer and Venturino’s Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West. Both have sections on general BPC reloading and the .45-70 in particular.

If you’re just starting out, the Ideal 457125 is a good design, the 457132 Postell might be a little better, and the Jones 45001 design is very good. Buffalo Arms should have the equivalent designs, and offers cast bullets, and a place called The Bullshop is supposed to be able to cast about anything you want, in any alloy.

[J.B.]

Just never get tired of looking at fine looking rifles.. and Shiloh doesnt make any other kind. Some good photos too. To my eye it looks like a No. 1 heavy/half round bbl. Very tidy indeed. The Lyman Govt bullet is a fine place to start your voyage of discovery and BACo. has them in stock currently at .459" diameter ( that is the #457125 ). Lubed with SPG, well packed and ready for your reloading pleasure.
rgds. J.B.

[Castaway]

Once cast, you need an appropriate lube. You can buy it or make it. There are almost as many magic formulas out there as there are shooters. Just to get you started, Midway has Montana bullets pre-lubed with SPG. The next step is the mould and lube. I’m certainly not an expert, this forum though is full of them, I use Gato Feo lube made from paraffin, mutton tallow, and bees wax in a 2:2:1 proportion by weight.

[RandallM]

You ought to get Venturino and Garbe’s SPG BP Cartridge Reloading Primer and Venturino’s Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West. Both have sections on general BPC reloading and the .45-70 in particular.

If you’re just starting out, the Ideal 457125 is a good design, the 457132 Postell might be a little better, and the Jones 45001 design is very good. Buffalo Arms should have the equivalent designs, and offers cast bullets, and a place called The Bullshop is supposed to be able to cast about anything you want, in any alloy.

I did get the book a few days ago. Haven't been through it all yet, but I also figured it was worth asking a few questions around the forum.

[RandallM]

Meant to say I got the first book, and I've just ordered the second one.

[John Bly]

You can get the black powder experience without a lot of goodies. Get some Swiss 1 1/2 Black powder, order 50 of the 525 grain bullets from BACO lubed with SPG. Once you have the bullets determine the seating depth and load the powder to this level. You don't need to drop tube it. You can seat a .060 wad or not. Load the bullet and go shoot. This will give the boom of black powder, the smoke and the accuracy may surprise you if you wipe the bore between shots. Once you try this and get hooked then you can start down the road with the accessories to make it shoot better.