What am I doing wrong here?

[Leadville Bill]

So I finally got my .45-90 LRE a few weeks ago. Wonderful craftsmanship, eye-catching rifle- looking forward to shooting it finally.

Before I made up a box of loaded cartridges I slipped some random sized (with my orange box Lyman 45-90 3 die set) but empty .45-90 cases (new, unfired Starlines I bought last fall) into the chamber to check fit. They slide in without a hitch but with almost no play, which I would expect for these rifles. The block would close and the cases extract when the block drops to its lowest travel. So far, so good.

I then made up a dummy round to test seating depth. I expanded with my Lyman expander die just enough to start a sized and lubed 500 grain Lyman Schmittzer (one of those old ones back when Lyman sold sized BPCR bullets). The bullet was seated up to the last band above the grease groove. When I went to chamber the round, it got almost in and then stopped with about 1/4" sticking out. Figuring the expander flared the case too much, I then used an old trick I learned for automatic pistol cases when they won't chamber- I ran the loaded round into the sizing die with the decapper removed to squeeze the round down to fit. Now the round will seat almost flush with the breech, but it takes the block rising to seat it the last little bit but then the extractor can't pull it out. In fact, the only way the round will come out is to go in with a shotgun rod to the muzzle and gently tap the handle to drive the dummy round out.

I figured this had something to do with the shape/length/nose diameter of that particular bullet, so I tried it two other dummy rounds - one with a Lee 459-405 HB and the other with a Lyman 457122 330 grain Gould HP. Both were cast by me with a mix of range scrap tempered with tin to about 30:1. I seated each the same way and had the same issue, and the same problem again even after squeezing with the sizing die and crimping with the seating die. Same darn thing- they almost seat home but need an extra push for the block to close, and they won't come out without the cleaning rod push. I figured the 330 grain bullet should work since there's hardly any exposed bullet length, but something is obviously wrong.

The fact that this is happening with an unfired rifle rules out fouling, so I suspect this might be one of those unfortunate combos with a chamber cut on the minus side of the spec and a sizing die on the plus side. I've got some Cerrosafe lying around and plan to cast the chamber and the sizing die this weekend to see if there's something up with either one, but I was hoping somebody here had some insight on what I'm doing wrong and how to fix the issue. I looked through the forum but the other threads on chambering all seemed to be related to fouling or bullets being seated out too long or with oversized nose diameters, which I don't think is the scenario here. Or maybe there is and I'm misdiagnosing the cause? The fact that it's happening with three different bullets all with different OAL makes me wonder if there's a chamber length issue. What trim length do you .45-90 owners use?

In case it's relevant, I did anneal the brass with a torch to the upper 1/4 to 1/2".

Thanks for your help. I've been learning a lot from you guys.

Leadville Bill

[bobw]

After annealing did you lube and full length resize? If you didn't do it say a half dozen full length resized the neck expanded and belled finish loading and try them. Do not compress the powder charge by using the bullet during seating.

[Don McDowell]

Check the nose diameter of the bullet
They might be to large and as mentioned if your not compressing before seating chances pretty good your deforming the nose

[patchbox]

Did you check to see if the bullets are just slightly starting to engage with the rifling? That’ll do what you’re describing - check for rifling witness marks on the first band of the bullet.

[patchbox]

I know you put the bullet in the case to a certain seating depth which I’m assuming was just touching the lands of the rifling. Then when you ran the case in the sizing die you effectively lengthened the case - the last 1/3 or so of the case lengthened and carried your seated bullet out farther which is now digging into the rifling lands because it’s longer than when you first seated. Just a theory. If you see rifling witness marks on the bullet then I suspect that’s what happened.

[patchbox]

Try the whole process again, except use a taper crimp die if you have one - that’ll bring the bell back down without resizing the case.

[patchbox]

Just kiss it enough to chamber the cartridge.

[Castaway]

Likely as not, it’s the nose profile. Just seat deeper, and as noted above, if you’re compressing powder with the bullet, don’t do it. If I’m loading the Lee 500 Govt bullet, because of the nose shape, I have to seat the bullet to 2.455” OAL with only 0.358” of the nose above the case mouth. I had to reduce the powder charge to 60 grains of OE 1.5. Of course, my Hoch mould that rides in the bore is standing proud above the mouth of the case. No issues with that bullet

[George Babits]

Are you sizing the bullets before loading. Whether sizzing the bullets or not, what is the diameter of the bullet?

George

[Dennis Armistead]

I think you're just engraving the rifling, not a bad thing if it's just a little, some shooters use a cam tool to engrave more. The Sharps extractor/ejector is pretty strong, so you can open the action and bump it with your palm to get the round out and not have to use a rod down the barrel. Just a thought.
Dennis

[Coltsmoke]

You need a bullet dia. no bigger than .459. After sizing the brass check the lenght to make sure it is not too long. Seat the last driving band fully with it being flush with the end of the brass. If the end of the case is flared, you have to get that out. That should take care of the bullet end. If you still have problems, let's move to the other end of the brass. All sizing dies are not the same. The Redding die is smaller than the others. I had to buy one to make my brass smaller right at the base, then it would chamber. Don't think that is your problem, you said it chambered with out the bullet. Take a sized piece of brass the right length, no flare on the case mouth see if it will chamber. Now expand it for the bullet, see if it will chamber. Now flare it see what it will do.

[Kirk]

Give me a call...

Kirk,

[Lumpy Grits]

How are you compressing the powder

[patchbox]

He is not compressing any powder - the cartridges with bullet he tried to chamber were dummy rounds - no powder - just bullet and case.

[From Along The Trail]

This idea may help?