Why case separation?

[opencountry]

In all the years of shooting black powder cartridge rifles I’ve never had a case separation, until today.
This early morning the weather here was still very cold and wet. I pushed two damp cotton patches down the bore, as usual, to rid the bore of the powder fouling. For the first time ever I minimized my bore and chamber drying procedure. When I dropped the breech block this is what came out of the chamber. BTW, I shoot pp bullets wrapped in 9-lb. cotton paper. I had to push the upper half of the case out with a delrin rod and cotton patch.
I’ll never take a shortcut ever again….

[JonnyV]

Yup I’ve had a few of those with my 2.4….now I have some new badass chamber mops made by patchbox that I use to keep that under control.

[bobw]

OC I am seeing a lot of blue/green corrosion at the separation on the inside of the case to blame it on abbreviated wiping..after firing and depriming my cases get the baco bore brush on a 20v Dewalt in a water/dawn/ white vinegar mix. Spinning in/out half submerged till no fouling exits the flash hole. So I don't think your surmise is correct. Bobw

[opencountry]

Thank you both. Bobw, I’m going to follow your lead and add vinegar to my Dawn Soap, plastic brush ‘scrub’ method. I’ll look down into the dry empty cases to see if there’s any corrosion there. If so I’ll use your method.
Thank you both!

[JonnyV]

That brass is really dirty looking, but if it was actually corroded enough for that to cause the separation, then it seems like you’d have multiple separations, as there would be lots of pieces of brass in the same condition.

Adding vinegar to your cleaning solution can work, but only in very small amounts. You would add between one and 1.5 ounces per gallon of solution. Acetic acid can attack the brass as well. I did a lot of experimenting with this and testing pH levels over a year ago. Too much vinegar will definitely cause problems. Why not just go with a wet tumbler and the ceramic media or the stainless pins rather than messing around with the drill and brush routine?

The other thing about long cases is that any moisture in the chamber will almost surely cause case separation. You stated in your opening post that you had a moist chamber and then fired a round.

[opencountry]

Yes. I believe the chamber could have been slightly moist due to my wiping mop being well worn (smaller in diameter due to being used for such a long period).
I’ve got to do something to eliminate this corrosion. What would be the best media, ceramic or steel pins?
Robert

[JonnyV]

So black powder fowling creates an alkaline solution when you put it in a soap bath. You can counteract the alkaline a little bit by adding a small amount of acid. The truth is, however you really don’t even need the acid. Black powder vowing is water soluble. so your initial cleaning solution would be a good amount of dish detergent, and possibly a small amount of acetic acid or citric acid.

As far as a tumbling media goes… Lots of people like the pins and there’s an equal number of people that like the ceramic media. The trick is to do it in a wet tumbler with plenty of dish soap, and a little bit of lemmi-shine, added in… The brass will come out, looking brand new inside and out, primer, pockets, and everything. At that point, I generally leave mine bagged up, waiting for further processing, such as trimming and annealing before it goes back into a dry media, for a final polish with some compound.

[bobw]

To clarify Jonny I used warm water, a sqiurt of Dawn, and a little vinegar for my case washing solution and that's just a 10-15 minute pre soak and used for power brushing the inside. Flush after and dry. Currently using a Frankfort Arsenal wet tumbler ss pins, dawn , lemishine, and water. I would have got ceramic but couldn't find any at the time. I don't dry polish with compound that saves me time. They are cartridge cases not jewelry. Bobw OC just some ideas do it any you want.

[JonnyV]

Yeah Bob, I figured you’d be doing it that way… I was afraid that opencountry was missing some of the details and how the process worked.

[bobw]

Jonny, OC has alot of ability and pretty much owns his own space. My original post was made because I thought he missed that blue/ green corrosion inside at the separation point. Bobw

[JonnyV]

Jonny, OC has alot of ability and pretty much owns his own space. My original post was made because I thought he missed that blue/ green corrosion inside at the separation point. Bobw

That's cool Bob...No disrespect intended....maybe the original post just came off a little weird...that brass sure is dirty...he'll get it fixed up.

[bpcrshooter62]

Hi all I have been thinking about this for a while now deciding weather or not to add my two cents worth . well here it is lol. You can tell me I know nothing if you wish but this is what works well for me when it comes to looking after my brass once it is fired to extend its life for a long time IMHO.

Once I fire the shell i de prime the case and place it in a mix of TKO and water in a jug to deactivate the black powder residue . Upon arriving home I then pour off the mix and rinse the cases off with hot water in the jug. From there they go in my rotary tumbler with water and 1 tea spoon of the liquid cleaning solution that Shiloh sells and Franklin Arsenals stainless steel pins. When my brass comes out of the tumbler it looks like the day I bought it. Clean as new inside and out even the primmer pockets are clean. Then i rinse it in hot water again and place it in a drying rack. Once it is dry its ready to reload again just like the first time I loaded it.

With the price of brass and the time it takes to modify it to the caliber you use and the price you pay for your rifle why cheep out on looking after your brass? A quart of the liquid cleaning solution that Shiloh sells for $25.00 will last a long time as you only need 1 tea spoon full per tumbler of brass. I have no green casings ever !!! Which to me green cases is a sign of the brass being weakened!!

As for the possibility of separation happening. The other thing I believe can cause this is over annealing of your casings. This is all besides a wet chamber of course.

Well that's my two cents worth on this mater I hope it helps.

Keep shooting and most of all having fun.

[opencountry]

Thank you, men, for your input - all of you. It’s certainly appreciated, really. I once used a tumbler with ceramic media, etc., and had excellent results. I don’t know why I opted in going with a brush instead. My cases are now dark, tarnished using the brush method. Anyway, each to their own method. In my way of thinking a blackened case is a sign of corrosion. I shoot a lot with my two 45-110s and my 90, and need my cases to last as long as I can make them last. I’m calling Shiloh today.
My respects to everyone, and thanks again.
Robert

[Clarence]

The only case separations I've ever had were in the .45-90 Sharps when I fired rounds with a wet chamber. I use ceramics with a teaspoon of Shiloh's (Maurer's) compound.

Clarence

[charlie young]

Since 2007 when I received my first Shiloh, 45-90 I have used Starline Brass. That same brass is used in 3 different rifles, 2 Shiloh and one MVA actioned Highwall. In fact the 2 Shilohs use the same load. Never have had a case separation. My chamber mop is a nylon bristle brush wrapped with a 2" cotton cleaning patch. When it's time to change, just wrap another one on the bristle jag, throw the dirty in the cart. I've shot with the same guys for 20 years, all do the same thing and I've only seen one separation and that was in a relay that I didn't even know who the fella was.