BPCR Primer Wads

[bandanaman]

I just finished reading a very interesting article Wayne wrote on BPCR Primer Wads .I have been "tinkering" with this sport for several years now and still feel very much a rookie. In my quest for knowledge early on a fellow shooter explained he uses cigarette paper over the primer prior to dropping powder. So off I go and buy some papers, Zig Zag thin [.001] red and white package which I used when I smoked and rolled my own .Took a standard loose leaf hole punch and went to work. The standard punch out seemed to cover the primer flash hole no matter how it landed, even if it is a little off center so I am thinking I am good right ? Later I noticed on the package "slow burning" which concerned me but everything went bang and I had already bought the papers.
I have never noticed any remnants of these wads but never thought to look just assuming they would burn on detonation .After reading this article I am wondering if the wad being off center may cause an offset diffusion of the flash and whether a larger wad might be best as it is undecided what is exactly going on down there.
When I punch these out some end up with glue strips as well but they are so thin you can see through them and are a bit of a pain to separate.....I have not done any testing but doubt I am marksman enough to see a noticeable difference .
Anyone care to weigh in on cigarette paper [also noted slow burning ? ], size of wad ,coffee filter paper white or brown recycled ????? The white I have are .0025,
Michael

[Randy Bohannon]

I use coffee filters cut into strips that fit my hand held RCBS priming tool, I do have to trim each hole punched in the paper with scissors. I get perfectly punched wads seated by the primer, I get my best groups using a wad over the primer.

[Randy Bohannon]

Brown coffee filters.

[RB1Shooter]

Coffee filter works best. The paper hole punch terrific. If you want to cut size for primer hole, use a hand held hole punch. The punch the size of the primer pocket.

I suggest going to Buffalo arms and purchasing a wad punch for the caliber you are shooting. Then you can punch under powder coffee filter wads as well as copy paper, over powder wad cover; keeps wad from sticking to bottom of bullet. Use colored note pad paper and the are easy to see after you fire. You'll be sure the wad doesn't stick on the base of the bullet.

For over powder wads, I suggest circle fly wads unless using poly wads.

[bandanaman]

I presently use a wad cutter I got through Lee Shaver and cut .030 over powder wads from veg paper supplied by Buffalo arms. Recently I have been using .060 circle fly wads purchased again through Buffalo arms. As a cover wad between the bullet and over powder wad I have been cutting these out of newsprint/junk mail flyers [ easy to see inside the case].I haven't really looked for my wads after firing at this time BUT WILL NOW to make sure they aren't ending up downrange..... I do have a roll of Alvin 55W-G 8LB.white lightweight tracing paper. This paper is .0015 as I had envisioned trying paper patching at some point in time.....So use the tracing paper here instead of newsprint ?I also have some poly from BACO but haven't gone there yet.....Are you meaning to use the hole punch outs to go between the primer inside the primer pocket or a specific punch which if my memory serve me right should be closer to .209 ? Then using a full sized wad inside the case under the powder if I am getting the drift....Do you have a preference on filter type ?
Appreciate you fellas weighing in on this, sometimes I get my facts mixed....maybe play an age card here

Michael

[ian45662]

I cut a slit in my shell holder for my RCBS hand priming tool and use construction paper. Nice and clean wads in the primer pocket.

[desert deuce]

Struggling against the urge to comment here. Have not decided where to begin. Or even that I should.

After all, what my experiences have been may not agree with yours.

Pondering, what should I do?

[bpcrshooter62]

DD come on tell us your story you know you want too !! LOL

[Luke]

Tried these in a few different loads, did not see any consistent improvement in groups at 200 yards. Just another variable. Used coffee filter paper. Fwiw, ymmv, etc.

[desert deuce]

Not so much my story as THE STORY. Some folks just can't handle enlightenment.

[RB1Shooter]

Hi Michael,

I don't mess with the wad in the primer pocket. It's way to much work as far as I am concerned. FYI: I have used cigarette rolling papers in the past and they work but, far more work than they are worth.

For me, I pre-punch a bunch of coffee filter & over powder wad paper wads and keep separately in a small bottle/container for storage. I found the coffee filter paper wads do not stick together so it is very easy to grab one and put into the case; I use a long pair of tweezers to grab a single wad and put in case. It is far easier & quicker than trying to put in by hand. After I get the 60 cases (for a match) inserted, I use a wooden dowl to push coffee filter wad against bottom of cartridge and then load my powder. The whole process takes maybe 10 - 30 minutes.

For the over powder wad paper, I use either large post-it paper or colored notebook paper - .003"-.004" thick. Again, the tweezers make it very easy to grab and put into the cartridge. After you shoot, you'll have a very difficult time finding your card or poly wads. They actually travel about 100 yards out. The paper wad, over the card wad is different; it will come off within 10 yards from where you shoot and is easy to spot. I use the colored paper so I can see it in the cartridge before bullet seating and on the ground after you shoot.

FYI: I would not worry much about the thickness of your coffee filter paper or over wad paper. I say this because if you measure the variations in thickness in over powder fiber wads, they can be +/1 .002" and I have found, make no difference in the load accuracy.

Good luck and just remember: "There are no short-cuts in BPCR match silhouette loading and shooting"

[Ray Newman]

Desert Deuce: many times it is just better to sit on the sidelines and let others post.

[DaveC]

When I could find Federal Gold Medal Match Large Pistol Primers, I would cut strips from the paper targets the ASSRA sells and use the primer to cut the paper circle as it was seated. The thick paper didn't cause any ignition problems, and filled up the extra depth that the pistol primer would otherwise have sunk below the case head into.

Now that I use CCl BR-2 primers, I cut a .45 caliber circle of newsprint with a wad punch and tamp it down to the bottom of the case with a dowel.

I'd be glad to not have to use them, but when I was developing loads the groups were always slightly better with the wads. BPC loading is an insidious additive thing in that way. You've already taken the time and trouble in casting and selecting the bullets, checking and trimming the shells, selecting the material and cutting the wads, determining exactly the perfect wad thickness and composition, checking out the powders available and determining the best weight, timing the drop tubing and optimizing the tube length, agonizing over the compression and seating depth, and on and on. The small amount of extra added effort expended in using primer wads (if they seem to work) appears minor because you've already done all that other stuff, and are you going to let a single percentage point go?

That's why I don't weigh cases, orient bullets or walk widdershins around the loading bench as I trickle in the powder. What if I got a few fortuitous good groups? I'd be condemned to doing that forever.

[JonnyV]

This thing with the wads…I concerned myself greatly with this over the last couple years. Maybe the best way I can sum it up is this…

There are two members of this forum. One of them I know. He has won all kinds of stuff, is a published author on loading BP and has a very distinguished shooting career. He believes in the under powder wads. Another guy on this forum I have not met, but it seems like he currently wins every match he enters and is also a published author on the topic of BP reloading. He also has a highly distinguished shooting resume. He does not believe in the under powder wads and says they increase vertical stringing.

For me, I have shot both with and without the under powder wads. At this point, I think that any improvement they might offer is going to be slight at best. They should be looked at as a fine tuning type of thing after you have worked out all of the following:

1. Absolute perfection of your shooting position and natural point of aim.
2. Perfection of your trigger control and shot release.
3. Total control of your breathing and keeping your heart rate below 65 bpm.
4. Perfecting your loading technique to where you can run a random 15 shot string across a chronograph and get an extreme spread no higher than 6 feet per second.
5. Perfection of your casting technique (see #4 above)

I think once those five things are done, it would be a great experiment to shoot some groups at 600 yards or so and see how loads with wads stack up against loads that don’t. You’d have to have your LabRadar set up too so that you’d get chrono data from the muzzle and down range. Any variation would be immediately apparent.

[desert deuce]

Think about this post as useful information if you are a "SERIOUS" competitive BPCR shooter. Excuse the brevity. I had been competing at the National and International level in pistol competition for 20 years before I picked up the first BPCR rifle 28 years ago, at first a love hate relationship.

Long story short, shooting well in serious competition with the BPCR Rifle is a Mental game. Perhaps 95% mental and 5% everything else. Not going to qualify this, it is what it is.

I remember a match at Raton when a recent long range national champion argued that the best these rifles would do was two minutes at target. The next day at midrange I scored for a shooter that hit the center pin in the shot spotter 4 times in a row at 600 yards. Roughly a one inch group at 600 yards. Observed a shooter from 1,000 yards hit the 5" spotter 4 times in a row, roughly one half minute at 1,000 yards. So what did I do, I started watching the guys that were shooting these sub minute groups with the belief that if they had the proper mental prep they would easily out score the national Champion that felt 2" groups were the best that could be achieved. The 2" grouper was beating the better shots with more accurate loads and rifles because he had the better mental management, not so much the best equipment. (Admittedly he was also an excellent reader of conditions.)

Now to this wad thing. Remember, it is the mental aspect that matters. Several times the problem with down range consistency is related to inconsistent ignition. In the most recent problems, light (weak spring) hammer fall, hammer fall obstructed, firing pin too short, excessive headspace, etc. May be a combination of things.

Yes, I prefer the primer seated so anvil is solid in the mix, below flush yet not too deep in firing pin pocket to the extent it does not receive the full impact of the firing pin. Flattening the face of the primer slightly when seating pretty much ensures the anvil is seated. Then measure the distance from the base of the case rim to the face of the primer. Let's say that is .009, and your headspace is .009, how long does the firing pin need to be to deliver optimum blow to the primer. (probably as much as .018 longer than standard?) If you put a .006 or .007 wad in front of the primer you are still below flush and the primer is closer to the firing pin.

Dave Mauer suggested I use the cardboard dividers in the cases of the original arsenal patches cut to .40 cal and under the powder. Worked.
The other stuff I had been using did not.

Moral of the story. If you are not somewhat of a precision BPCR shooter this information may not be useful. If you do have your load down in the one MOA think about what you have to do to up your mental game.