Help needed with a leading issue

[desert deuce]

Looks like you were lucky KW, only needed to have one to get some leading.
Well, I look down the barrel when I get a blank from anyone of any make. Don't like what I see, I would send it back.
Unfortunately, and so far, nothing to complain about, so that is my complaint. Just unlucky I guess.

[desert deuce]

Forgot to mention, I am hoarding GM barrels.

[Kurt]

I just re barreled one of my rifles with a GM barrel. It is one of their honed air gauged barrels and it was pretty dark when I got it. I just about sent it back but it was smooth and the edges were sharp so I mounted it.
I just shot 30 rounds to get the sights set Monday for the first time and cleaning it the patches came out pretty dark. I borescope it to see what was going on and it was still pretty dark but no lead. I oiled it and the next morning I ran a dry patch through again and it came out black, dark like I just fired it.
I have no idea what that dark coating is but it's getting lighter.
Loaded some ladder loads yesterday to see what works best.

Kurt

[JonnyV]

I've noticed with my barrel that the leading I experience at any given time is directly related to my fouling control (or lack thereof). Since I went to DanT's method (2 wet patches followed by a dry patch and a chamber mop) I don't really get a lot of leading any more. The stuff I do get amounts to no more than dust sized flecks on the patch. This is with the micro groove greaser bullet and my rendition of WL lube. I'm also using Dan's preferred alloy (96-2-2).

When my fouling control was "something else besides Dan's method" (wipers, blow tube, smaller patches, oil/water mixes, whatever) I would get leading, sometimes big streaks of it. I would also get hard carbon fouling as well. Maybe this is all just a coincidence and there isn't any causation here, but I feel like the two are connected. I'm probably wrong though but I'm gonna stick with this method.

[Don McDowell]

One othe thing to keep track of when sizing/lubing grease groove bullets is the nose does get deformed or bulged that will give a bunch of lead mining experience
Have a few rifles with Green mountain barrels with not a wit of lead problems if proper care if loading and fouling control is done

[mike herth]

How do you recognize hard carbon fouling?

[kwilliams]

Looks like you were lucky KW, only needed to have one to get some leading.
Well, I look down the barrel when I get a blank from anyone of any make. Don't like what I see, I would send it back.
Unfortunately, and so far, nothing to complain about, so that is my complaint. Just unlucky I guess.

Yah I never needed a bore camera until this one arrived, looking down the bore always was sufficient. The camera shows everything you don't see by just peeking down the pipe. Never once did I feel the need to scrutinize one of Ernies Badger barrels. 50 yrs of buying barrels and this was the worse, now that all said, I do have some fine older GM barrels. QA and QC has taken a hit lately so it seems.

[JonnyV]

How do you recognize hard carbon fouling?

Basically, you put a tight dry patch on your jag and just run it up and down the bore a bunch of times. If it comes out with these sharp lines that look like they were drawn with a pencil, that's carbon fouling. It seems to occur in the inside corners of the grooves. The photos below were from the DI match, and were taken after I had done a bunch of scrubbing. The first patches I ran were a good bit worse than this.



After this is when I switched up fouling control and ditched the moose milk for MPro-7 full time. Now after shooting, I test for carbon fouling but haven't found any.

[Tomklinger]

DD,
Let Lone Star shoot it! Maybe he can get it to lead for you…

Tom Klinger

[desert deuce]

Perhaps preventing carbon fouling in the bore may approach 100% during a string of fire during competition it may prove over time that controlling the (HARD) carbon fouling during record fire to the extent that it does not adversely affect accuracy is closer to what is reasonably attainable.

Then ask yourself, why do blow tubers shooting under favorable conditions do not experience a noticeable diminishment of accuracy during record fire? Certainly, there is both remaining residue and an accumulation of residue in the bore?

[desert deuce]

Maybe so Tom, but, maybe KW would be a better test platform.

[JonnyV]

Perhaps preventing carbon fouling in the bore may approach 100% during a string of fire during competition it may prove over time that controlling the (HARD) carbon fouling during record fire to the extent that it does not adversely affect accuracy is closer to what is reasonably attainable.

Then ask yourself, why do blow tubers shooting under favorable conditions do not experience a noticeable diminishment of accuracy during record fire? Certainly, there is both remaining residue and an accumulation of residue in the bore?

I think they may get those results in part because they're usually running bullets with big lube grooves. They leave a lot of lube in the barrel which might prevent hard fouling buildup. The bullet I'm running though has tiny lube grooves and probably leaves almost no lube at all in the barrel. The efficiency of this relies on having a clean and dry bore for each shot.

A bore with a lot of lube left in it might not suffer adverse effects if the fouling is "floating" on a layer of lube?? I have noticed blow tubers I shoot with at the Q starting to suffer when the temps go up over 100 and the humidity drops.

[Lone_Star]

What is the bullet alloy and source of alloy?

Bryan

Alloy is 16/1 pre-mixed alloy from John Walters. I have also tried 30/1, 25/1, 20/1.

One othe thing to keep track of when sizing/lubing grease groove bullets is the nose does get deformed or bulged that will give a bunch of lead mining experience
Have a few rifles with Green mountain barrels with not a wit of lead problems if proper care if loading and fouling control is done

I used a expander die to set powder depth to with .020, then compressed that last 20 with the bullet to be sure there is firm contact with the powder.

DD,
Let Lone Star shoot it! Maybe he can get it to lead for you…

Tom Klinger

Eh, I will just send DD my barrel and he can have fun cleaning it.

I have tried a multitude of ways to remove the lead after shooting, none of them will do it easily. Lead in the bottom corners of the grooves is the toughest. I seem to be able to shoot an entire match, only running 3 wet patches between relays, and not loose any accuracy.

Right now the shooting season is pretty much done around here, so I am pondering my options and hopefully will have something figured out by the start of next year's season.

Thanks for everyone's input, it has all been helpful (except that paper patch stuff..... )!

[Don McDowell]

That compressing the last bit the bullet is likely the root of the problem
Compress the wad to the proper depth and gently seat the bullet on the wad

[ian45662]

My 38 GM barrel doesn’t really lead. Only my 45 cal highwall. When I say leading I mean just some flakes that comes out on the first patch or 2. Not hard to get out at all.