Help needed with a leading issue

[powderburner]

Don McDowell wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2024 1:18 pm
One othe thing to keep track of when sizing/lubing grease groove bullets is the nose does get deformed or bulged that will give a bunch of lead mining experience
Have a few rifles with Green mountain barrels with not a wit of lead problems if proper care if loading and fouling control is done
I used a expander die to set powder depth to with .020, then compressed that last 20 with the bullet to be sure there is firm contact with the powder.

I agree with don here. That is easily checked with your caliper. Measure the dia. Of a loaded case nose vs a fresh cast bullet. It only has to bulge a tho or two.

[desert deuce]

Really: Eh, I will just send DD my barrel and he can have fun cleaning it.

Send the complete rifle and 60 rounds of fireformed brass, the barrel cannot be tested alone and no I won't mount it on an alternative action.

[TexasMac]

Based on all the comments I doubt the following is the root cause of the leading but I'll toss it out there just in case. I ran into a terrible time with leading in a Browning .40-65. I bore wipe with NAPA water soluble oil & water (1:10 solution oil:water). I shot in several matches with mediocre to poor scores as I struggled to figure out the cause of the leading.

I considered the most common causes including the bullet diameter being too small, allowing hot gasses to blow by, i.e. gas cutting prior to the bullet bumping up (obturating) to fill the chamber and throat. Another is the alloy could be too hard preventing the bullet from obturating sufficiently or quickly enough. Other possibilities include inadequate lube or the cartridge overall length was too short (bullet seated too deep) allowing blow by. But none of the above made sense when considering past successful shooting results with the same bullet cast from the same alloy, with the same lube and reloaded the same. And the cartridge is certainly not too short since the 1st driving contacted the leade. Plus, I wipe between shots which would compensate to some extent for inadequate lube. I even changed bullets and reduced the velocity but the leading persisted.

Nothing was obvious until I overheard a discussion between two shooters. One guy mentioned that if the wiping patches left too much solution in the bore, leading would result. The comment struck a chord. I was shooting in the Texas State Match when the problem cropped up. Prior to day 2 of the match, after soaking the wiping patches, I’d been squeezing them out until most of the liquid was removed, leaving them lightly damp. When preparing for the 2nd day of the match I’d decided to leave the patches wetter to better clean and lube the bore, and continued to use them in the same condition for subsequent matches.

They were wet enough that some of the solution would leak into the action when inserting the patch into the chamber. Following the overheard conversation the patches were squeezed out good but left damp for the next match. That did the trick; there were no signs of leading with the exception of a few tiny flakes. Since then, I’ve shot in scores of matches with the same outcome. Who would have thought…? Too dry of a wiping patch can result in poor accuracy due to burnt powder and lube fouling remaining in the bore. Apparently too wet will have similar results due to leading, another form of bore fouling.

Wayne

[gunlaker]

Yeah, patches that are too wet will definitely cause leading. Better to use more patches that are just damp than one that is really wet. The only time I break this rule is with paper patches bullets were I use wet patches followed by one or two patches to dry the bore.

Chris.

[Lone_Star]

Really: Eh, I will just send DD my barrel and he can have fun cleaning it.

Send the complete rifle and 60 rounds of fireformed brass, the barrel cannot be tested alone and no I won't mount it on an alternative action.

I am contemplating sending you the rifle, brass, and bullet mould, if you are willing to take on a winter project.....

[semtav]

Be a lot cheaper to spend the winter shooting paper patch bullets and then try the GG again in the spring.
Unless of course you get hooked on the pp. Then you can sell off the GG paraphernalia.

[desert deuce]

OP wrote: I am contemplating sending you the rifle, brass, and bullet mould, if you are willing to take on a winter project.....

Well let's see, got deer and elk tags this fall, gearing up the Desert International in Dec-January, spring 2025 shoot, and trying to fit elective surgery in.

However, remove the butt stock, pack well and send insured by USPS, and yes insure for replacement plus 10%.
POB 4012 Rio Rico, AZ 85648-4012

Have primers, powder, alloy, bullet lube etc. The exorcism to banish bad paper patch vibes from the barrel is free of charge.

You can pick it up at the Desert International in April. No charge also.

WARNING: If in fact the rifle ends up shooting really well you may have to wait until after the DI, April 9th to retake possession.

I don't procrastinate. I just take the time necessary to complete the mission, correctly.

[bpcr shooter]

Based on all the comments I doubt the following is the root cause of the leading but I'll toss it out there just in case. I ran into a terrible time with leading in a Browning .40-65. I bore wipe with NAPA water soluble oil & water (1:10 solution oil:water). I shot in several matches with mediocre to poor scores as I struggled to figure out the cause of the leading.

I considered the most common causes including the bullet diameter being too small, allowing hot gasses to blow by, i.e. gas cutting prior to the bullet bumping up (obturating) to fill the chamber and throat. Another is the alloy could be too hard preventing the bullet from obturating sufficiently or quickly enough. Other possibilities include inadequate lube or the cartridge overall length was too short (bullet seated too deep) allowing blow by. But none of the above made sense when considering past successful shooting results with the same bullet cast from the same alloy, with the same lube and reloaded the same. And the cartridge is certainly not too short since the 1st driving contacted the leade. Plus, I wipe between shots which would compensate to some extent for inadequate lube. I even changed bullets and reduced the velocity but the leading persisted.

Nothing was obvious until I overheard a discussion between two shooters. One guy mentioned that if the wiping patches left too much solution in the bore, leading would result. The comment struck a chord. I was shooting in the Texas State Match when the problem cropped up. Prior to day 2 of the match, after soaking the wiping patches, I’d been squeezing them out until most of the liquid was removed, leaving them lightly damp. When preparing for the 2nd day of the match I’d decided to leave the patches wetter to better clean and lube the bore, and continued to use them in the same condition for subsequent matches.

They were wet enough that some of the solution would leak into the action when inserting the patch into the chamber. Following the overheard conversation the patches were squeezed out good but left damp for the next match. That did the trick; there were no signs of leading with the exception of a few tiny flakes. Since then, I’ve shot in scores of matches with the same outcome. Who would have thought…? Too dry of a wiping patch can result in poor accuracy due to burnt powder and lube fouling remaining in the bore. Apparently too wet will have similar results due to leading, another form of bore fouling.

Wayne

I soak mine in 10-1 napa/water. pull them out and squeeze them just a bit, along with 2 dry patches after that, I Have gotten VERY good results. At the recent Creedmoor 150 match in TN, I was using 2 sometimes 3 dry patches just to make sure the bore was dry/clean. I had zero leading and very good results.

matt

[steveu834]

I soak mine in 10-1 napa/water. pull them out and squeeze them just a bit, along with 2 dry patches after that, I Have gotten VERY good results. At the recent Creedmoor 150 match in TN, I was using 2 sometimes 3 dry patches just to make sure the bore was dry/clean. I had zero leading and very good results.

matt
[/quote]

Matt, so you’re saying that you completely dry the bore for greasers or PP?

[bpcr shooter]

PP.

If....i shoot GG, Im trying MPro7 and toying with ATF.

[steveu834]

ATF,

[bpcr shooter]

ATF,

Its thin, easy to see how much is on the patch, pretty cheap, has metal protectant in it, has cleaners in it. Also working on a better "fouling" remover. trying to keep it so it can be had off the shelf...

[steveu834]

ATF,

Its thin, easy to see how much is on the patch, pretty cheap, has metal protectant in it, has cleaners in it. Also working on a better "fouling" remover. trying to keep it so it can be had off the shelf...

I might have to try some Ed’s red!

[bpcr shooter]

just be warned that oil products and BP dont mix well. Thats why I will only use a few drops on a dry patch

[Aviator]

just be warned that oil products and BP dont mix well. Thats why I will only use a few drops on a dry patch

Matt, don't tell my long range muzzle loader!
It gets an oil patch just before each bullet goes in!
What bad effect should I be seeing?