Building a Hunting Rifle

[rdnck]

Sharps got it right in the first place, and Kenny W knows it. I have owned two Shiloh Business Rifles in 45-70 in years past, and like MLV and his pet military rifle, I foolishly sold them. These rifles balance and carry beautifully, and are rock solid when shooting offhand. The original sharps factory designed these as a solid working gun and they really got it right.

After the wife's Saddle rifle comes in, my next Shiloh will be what I consider to be MY perfect hunting rifle. A Business Rifle with a shotgun buttplate in 45-110. Loaded with 100 grains of Goex 1f and a 530 grain paper patched bullet, it will give a relatively soft recoil and fine accuracy. That big soft paper patched bullet gets the job done, and if more velocity is needed, it is a simple matter to go to a grease groove bullet and a heavier powder charge.

I am playing with paper patching in my Number 3 Sporter in 45-110 now, and the fun factor is absolutely off the scale. This 14 3/4 pound rifle is fun to shoot in the first place, and that 2 7/8 inch case has plenty of room inside for enough powder, wads, and grease cookies to make things work with no hassles.

Business Rifle, shotgun buttplate, 45-110. Works for me. Shoot straight, rdnck.

Chairman, Phd
Caddo Lake Chapter
FES

[Ken Hartlein]

I don't want anything on my Shiloh that I can't take off, so I have toyed with the ideal of putting a "mountainman" type sling on my rifle that I have ordered. I too have carried an 11 lb 9 oz shiloh up to 11000 feet and by the end of the week my arms are about two inches longer so I want a sling on this one but I just can't see putting sling studs on it. Have any of you tried the "mountainman style" for a sling?? My ideal of a perfect hunting Shiloh is a Montanna Roughrider in either 40-70SS, 45-110 or 50-70, with either a 26" or 28" barrel, standard weight octagon. I still think the choice of calibre is going to just be a personal thing, you can hunt and kill just about any critter around with either one of these, you just have to be able to shoot it well!!

[Brent]

[quote="Ken Hartlein"]I don't want anything on my Shiloh that I can't take off, so I have toyed with the ideal of putting a "mountainman" type sling on my rifle that I have ordered. [/quote]

Ken,
This is EXACTLY what I have done with my #3 Sporter (32" 1/2 oct). My rifle weighs in at about 10.6# and a bit more if I forget to take the recoil reducer out. I carry it everywhere, at any elevation. But that sling sure is nice from time to time.

Mine laces over the buttplate and the around the barrel. I bought it from Cabelas. The strap will unlace from the butt piece so I leave the butt piece on at all times. I have made a 3/4" leather "pad" to slip in underneath it. This gives my rifle a longer length of pull and a bit larger recoil surface (mine is of the military butt plate persuasion).

Brent

[JAGG]

KH ! Just take a wide strip of elk leather thong and slip over the barrel and tie it on the wrist or BUTT ! If you are hunting open ground it is one thing to sling over your shoulder , but in woods or cover your going to go hungrey or get eatten ! A 7.5 to 10 lb rifle isn't that heavy that you can't carry it in your hands while traveling to and from your hunting position ! You should see the rest of the stuff i carry along ! JAGG

[Ken Hartlein]

Brent, Great, Thanks, that is what I am going to do also, I think it would work very well just as you indicated.

[Brent]

Ken,
Now that I have you convinced, let me give you the one caveat. The strap laces around the barrel in fairly loose loop. This loop can "tilt" such that it might block your front site. I have punched new holes and laced it a bit tighter so that does not happen. But check for this and adapt or alter.

Brent

[rdnck]

This thread got me to thinking about hunting rifles, to say the least. I decided to take my own advice about the Business Rifle being the perfect hunting rifle, and ordered one.

I just got off the phone with Shiloh and have ordered a Business Rifle with a shotgun buttplate, and one wood upgrade in 45-110. Shoot straight, rdnck.

Chairman, Phd
Caddo Lake Chapter
FES

[taw1126]

rdnk:
Any chance Shiloh gave you an estimate on Business Rifle delivery? I've got one ordered (for the second time) but don't know when to expect it to go into production.

Trey

[Saddlemaker]

A carrying strap to my way of hunting is as necessary as good sights or a crisp trigger pull. I not only use the sling while climbing or doing any number of things requiring two hands but I use the tight sling method to shoot whenever possible as I rarely carry buffalo sticks. Between the military and high power competiton it is second nature to me.

My hunting partner shot a Cape Buffalo behind the shoulder with a 454 Freedom Arms and had a exit wound on the off side. He was using 350 grain hard cast LBT style bullets at about 1325 FPS. I think a well designed bullet of about 400 grains at over 1300 FPS will take any non dangerous game in South Africa. How many Grizzly Bear did Teddy Roosevelt kill with his 45-60 and 45-75 with a 350 Grain bullet ? I'm thinking of a 45-70 or 45-90 with a Paul Jones designed, about 400 grain bullet with a LBT nose profile cast 30-1.

[rdnck]

taw1126--I didn't ask about the delivery time. I have a 40-65 Saddle rifle on order for the wife and I hope her gun makes it here first. I figure when it comes, it comes. Shoot straight, rdnck.

Chairman, Phd
Caddo Lake Chapter
FES

[RMulhern]

Board

I reckon most of you fellows....DON'T eat Wheaties! IMO...the IDEAL hunting rifle...is my LRE .45/110 Shiloh what's got a 30" full octagan barrel and shoots "lights out" with anything from a 550 PJ Creedmoor to a 570 gr. PJ Smerker! I've been packing it two miles a day in a brisk walk carrying it the old fashioned way; with the barrel resting over my right shoulder and my right hand holding it just aft of the front sight, butt-stock rearward! The "old timers"....knew what worked! Balances perfect this way and if at 64...I can tote it up to 9000 ft., (I don't hunt elk with track shoes on anyway) surely you young guys oughta be able to do the same! It don't really make a "hoot" to me what ya shoot but IMO...the .45/70 case looks kinda "pale" up beside a 2.875" case!

Sharpsman
OIC/FES
Clear Lake Chapter

[rdnck]

Sharpsman--I have to agree with you. I know your LRE weighs 14 pounds or better, I have seen it and held it in my hands. As I stated in a post some time back, the body will adjust and adapt to whatever levels of stress are placed upon it, within reason--and 14 or 15 pounds is not an unreasonable weight to be able to deal with. BALANCE and weight distribution is the key here. These 30 inch heavy barreled Shilohs have outstanding balance and weight distribution in the 14 to 15 pound range, and both of my heavy barreled guns are easier to shoot offhand than a 13 pound rifle with a 34 inch barrel. It is a matter of mind set, mostly.

I have been spending some time with my 14 3/4 pound Number 3 Sporter in 45-110, and it is really coming around shooting paper patched bullets. I don't expect my Business Rifle to be ready by this hunting season, and by mid September I will take the target sights off of it and slip a copper blade front sight in and go hunting. I have a buffalo somewhere in my future, and maybe an elk. I'm gonna do it with this rifle and paper patched bullets. Shoot straight, rdnck.

Chairman, Phd
Caddo Lake Chapter
FES

[tom ball]

I have a 26 inch Shiloh Sharps 45/70 saddle rifle with sling studs that I bought in 1988. It weighs about 9lbs. With 80 grs. of Swiss 2f and 1/8 inch compression, a .030 veg. wad and seating the 1st groove(without grease) out of the case on a 480 gr. Seaco bullet, I get 1335 fps. I don't have to blow tube with this load for subsequent shots. I file a .300 meplat on this bullet with no apparent loss in accurracy. It kills well, but the best load for me to kill game with is 80 grs. of swiss 2f (drop tubed then 1/8" compression) WW cases, Fed. 215 mag. primer, .440 diam. Mont. Prec. Swaged(unpatched).449 diam. patched with 9lb. 100% cotton & seated way up into the rifling like in the old days, neck sized and Lightly crimped to hold the bullet in place. This load is sure enuff a killer on big game. The blood loss and trail on an animal hit any direction through the heart lung area is surprising! I get about 1275 fps and I can't tell the difference in killing rate between it and the 45/110 on elk.

I hunt in grizz. country so I currently have on order a Shiloh Hartford 50/90 with a 28 inch barrel with a traditional steel shotgun butt and sling studs. It should weigh about10 1/4 to 10 1/2 lbs. I plan to load it with swaged paper patch bullets that will be just a tad smaller than bore diam so that I can pour in anywhere from 105 to 110 grs. of Swiss 2F powder. I want to see for myself if there is any diff. in killing speed on big game between the Big 50 and the Big 45s. I don't find a rifle of about 10lbs. all that tiring if I have a sling.

As an aside: Another reason for ordering the Big 50 is that I found out recently that my Great Grandfather was a Buffalo Runner in West Texas in the 1870's and he used a 50/90 Sharps with paper patched bullets.

[pete]

When I hunt I seem to always end up walking alot and the thought of lugging a 14 lb rifle for miles especially for more than one day is tiresome to say the least. I carried my 12 lb Shiloh for most of the day last Nov. for buffalo and while I did get used to it to a point I found myself switching it from my left to right hand alot. I believe that a person can carry a lighter rifle farther with the same fatigue level as with a heavier one. That is someone can walk say 8 miles with a lighter weight rifle and be as tired as a person carrying a 12 pounder is at 5 miles. I sure wouldn't wear my steel toed boots for all day hiking/hunting if I didn't have to. The old buffalo hunters used heavy rifles because they shot alot of rounds at each stand. And yes I know they walked alot. But Sharps and Remington also offered lighter weight rifles for hunting too. Carrying a rifle when there's animals in sight is easy because of the excitement factor but for those long periods when just walking along especially toward the end of the day those heavy guns get tiresome.
For the last 14 years I've hunted with a muzzleloader or bp cartridge rifle and haven't used a sling for authenticity reasons (I thought it was authentic anyway) but this year I'm making a sling. It gets old carrying the rifle and having to lean it against me every time I want to look through my binoculars. There's a picture of a hunter on pg. 56 of Shooting Buffalo Rifles Of The Oldwest. That rifle might be in a museum or collection somewhere today and what are the odds that the sling is still with it? Probably pretty slim I'd say. So some of the rifles in museums that don't have slings today doesn't mean they never did.

[Marathonman]

Well, its true that the body will get used to whatever abuse you give it. I have ran five 26.2 mile marathons in the last 4 months with the most recent one last weekend. I never even got a blister while recording my best time ever!

Now, for huntin guns I have a 16 pound 50-90 that has taken a few ELk and Deer with one shot and is as impressive a thunder stick as I've ever carried. This fall though I'm packin my Shiloh Business rifle in 45-70!

See boys, I can learn too!

8)