Is a midrange soule enough?

Troll · Post by **Troll** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:22 am

I ordered a #2 creedmoore in 40-70 SS with a midrange soule. I mainly intend to participate in shillotte matchs but would still like to compete in the occasional long range match. Is the midrage soule enough for long range competion?

Jim Watson · Post by **Jim Watson** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:26 am

I have a midrange sight that has elevation left above the 500 metre and 600 yard marks. I have heard of people shooting with midrange sights as far as 800 yards but I don't think you can count on 1000.

Just bear in mind, if it is 1/8" too short for your longest range, you are about ten feet low at 1000 yards.

Somebody who does long range will come along and say for sure.

Matthew_Q · Post by **Matthew_Q** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:20 am

One thing you could do to get a bit more use out of a midrange sight would be to make a small block, and mount the sight on top of the block. I think I've heard of someone doing that, or read it here. You would need longer screws, and your range settings would change, but you'd get the extra staff height for long range.

Or just skip it and get the long range sight.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:25 am

FWIW: here’s how I look @ it.

I’ve talked to Shooters who have run out elevation adjustment when shooting LR w/ a MR sight. But I have never heard of or talked to a Shooter w/ a LR sight running out of adjustment for a LR match….

My theory is buy a LR w/ the most am’t of wind adjust possible & be done w/ it. That way one you only buy one sight once.

It has been suggested that a Shooter could slip a spacer in between the sight base & the tang. In fact I’ve often wondered if such a set-up might not be feasible. It probably would work, if you or whoever is fabricating sight cut & milled the block so it is square & does not introduce any cant to the elevation staff & keep the staff @ the same angle & the holes are properly drilled.

Jsmith0013 · Post by **Jsmith0013** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:07 pm

Troll:
I have a Baldwin MR Soule sight on my Business Rifle (28" barrel) and can lob bullets out to 1000+ yards. A longer barrel will obviously reduce how far out you can reach with any given sight.
Jim

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:59 pm

Jsmith0013 makes a valid point.

But for some Shooters & their eye sight (& maybe under certain weather conditions), would not a longer barrel provide a longer sight radius to bead down on the target?

Also a longer barrel provides more weight to lessen the ill-effects of recoil during a match. It is "unpleasant" to shoot a heavy recoiling or a light rifle or one w/ poor stock design from the prone position ….

Matthew_Q · Post by **Matthew_Q** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:05 pm

Ray, a longer barrel does increase the sight radius, and help the inherant accuracy, but with a longer radius, the adjustments on the rear sight reduce in their increments. I.E., if a rear sight was graduated in 1MOA points for a 28" barrel, they will actually be less than 1MOA on a longer barrel. This can give you finer adjustments, but you need more real estate to play with.

I agree with the comment about just buying a LR sight with as much windage as you can, and just be done with it. Unless you just have plenty of money and can shell out for a few sights, that is!

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:57 pm

Troll,
I shot a LR match with a fellow shooting a Hiwall in 40-70SS, and a MVA mid-range sight. He shot a 440 grain bullet with 69 grains [if I remember right] Swiss 1.5, and had no trouble making 1000 yards. I was shooting a 40-82 sil. with a similar bullet and 85 grains of Cartridge in a Browning and my velocity was a little slow for 1000 yards. I do not remember how long the barrel was but it was at least 30" if not 32".
Now this was shot in the frozen north as the tundra was thawing, so I believe that as the weather gets hotter and the elevation gets higher [over 1000 feet above sea level] bullets fly better.

If I am correct, then you folks at elevation or hotter climates will find it easier to reach 1000 yards.

[but I think the distance is about the same

]
Keep on hav'n fun!

Troll · Post by **Troll** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:04 pm

Now, let's not degrade into cajun cooking....I see we are getting a little off topic.

I just need to know if I need to go with the long range soule. The barrel lenght will be 30" if that matters.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:07 pm

Mike T: how do you like the .40-82 Sil?

I have an extra BPCR in .40-65 that I've thought about either rebarreling or rechambering to a bigger.40.

Shiloh Sharpie · Post by **Shiloh Sharpie** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:28 pm

[quote="Troll"]I ordered a #2 creedmoore in 40-70 SS with a midrange soule. I mainly intend to participate in shillotte matchs but would still like to compete in the occasional long range match. Is the midrage soule enough for long range competion?[/quote]

No. You will need a long range. What debate? It doesn't cost much more.

Lee Stone · Post by **Lee Stone** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:26 pm

Troll,

Keep in mind, the long range sight can and will do anything the mid range or short range sights can do plus they can do longer range. But it does not work the other way. I currently only have 4 Sharps yet, (3 in the house, 1 currently in production at Shiloh). Each one of them has an MVA Long Range Buffalo Soule with Hadley eyecup. This gives me the flexibilty of the longests range and the greatest amount of windage.

Oh, and by the way, there is nothing degrading about Cajun cooking! Unless of course you are refering to its effects on the waist-line

.

wwben47 · Post by **wwben47** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:01 pm

This is kind of a related question..Hope yall dont mind..I got my #3 45/70. (It truly IS everything you said it would be Lee!) If I install a long range..is it possible to remove the staff when hunting leaving the base installed?..If not can it be folded AWAY from your eye?..Just wonderin

Lee Stone · Post by **Lee Stone** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:46 pm

Ben,
Don't ever fire your rifle with the tang sight folded down. That is just about a guaranteed eye surgery or loss. If you fold the sight forward, away from your eye, you still will not be able to see your barrel sights. So you have to to remove the staff.

The MVA's I have, I orderd the large knurled bolt to attach the staff to the base. That way it is not too big of a deal to remove the staff and leave the base when you want to use the barrel sights. You just need to loosen the spring screw so as to relieve the spring tension on the staff and then unscrew the bolt. To re-install the staff, you again loosen the spring screw get the staff loosely bolted in place, align the staff to be vetical and then tighten everything.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:44 pm

Ray Newman,
I like the 40-82 Sil by Dave @ Lone Star Rifle Company [formerly of TX?].
With your 40-65 dies, just form the tops of the 45-90 brass and shoot'em. I have a grease groove showing with this cartridge so am thinking about a bull barreled 40-90 Sharps BN. :shock: With a 440 grain Brooks bullet and 74.5 grains of Swiss 1.5 I have chronographed my 40-82 Sil. load at 1351 fps average, with an extreme spread of 9 fps. Maybe the 40-90BN will get 1400 fps with a 450 grain bullet. :P 1000 yard shooting is fun with the 40-82. Should be even more fun with a Shiloh.
Keep on hav'n fun!

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Is a midrange soule enough?

Is a midrange soule enough?

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