Are they hunters or Special Forces?

[pete]

I watch hunting shows on tv because every now and then there's a good one but for the most part these guys and gals are starting to look more like they're fighting terrorists than trying to kill a deer or whatever. Just about every possibly conceivable gadget electronic and otherwise is used. There's electronic hearing amplifiers, electronic portable calls for everything, scent locking suits, anti uv suits and on and on. What's next alien Predator type suits? One maker says "Forget the wind, just hunt". I say out loud to the tv that watching the wind IS part of hunting.
I'm not sure where the line of going too far is since I use binoculars and have nothing against rifle scopes unless it's on a muzzleloader, but some of these things are definately going too far.
I know these shows are nothing more than advertisements but you'd think there are products that aren't so Delta Forceish that could be advertised. I wish somebody would come up with a show for more primitive hunters in mind for those of us that want to use a traditional bow, muzzleloader or bp cartridge rifle. There's products out there that could be advertised. I mean it looks ridiculous to see some of these guys with there equipment. They would say it's good because it makes us more efficient and successful and to that I say, Duh ya think, why not NVG's then you're almost there now.

[pete]

On the positive side. Since Shiloh is in Montana I will say that I like the Montana Secrets show most of the time. They're a little goofy which is a nice change and they don't have to use every new high tech gadget that comes down the road. I didn't say they never do but they don't always have to.

[TYRVR]

Pete, I have been around a long time, I noticed years ago that the emphasis has changed in what used to be pleasureable and in most cases, nescessary endeavour called "hunting", the emphasis is now on killing.
To many (not all) so called hunters today, if they do not kill something....the time has been wasted, that is a shame,as the process in which game is harvested is what it is all about, tradition, skills learned by doing and observation can't be bought from Cabelas or learned from videos, but folks keep on trying....and it is a billion dollar industry, too bad.

Ol'Tye, too old to hunt, but still likes to bark.

[pete]

TYRVR, I wonder what the gun writers of yesteryear like Jack O Connor would think of this new techno race.
But you know what? I was thinking of some other useful tools that might help us overcome the quarry and have thought of a few. I've seen the ad for the very necessary gizmo that suppresses somebody's cough and it came to me that since that's so vital that we should also have a Sneeze Suppressor, a Belch Suppressor and the most important of all a Fart Suppressor. I mean I can't tell you how many times I've had an animal take off after I farted. Sometimes the animals will turn to look at their own butt's first but they quickly figure it out and then they really take off.
Another one is the Olfactory Enhanser. Yesss if I could only smell the animals first then I would be a deadly predator when it's used in conjunction with the other "tools" of the trade. In addition to these I just thought that if I could come up with some kind of pill that would make my farts smell like an animal then I could use myself as a cover up scent. Maybe call it Flatucover or something. That would be cool. Wow the possibilities are endless. What do you think?

[BuckeyeShooter]

Thanks pete I needed a good laugh and that's pretty darn funny

[Ken Hartlein]

That's good Pete, that is really good!! I know what you mean, if you ever get any of those pills send me some, I love chille and jalopenos!! I just about don't watch those hunting shows anymore just because of what you said. When I hunt it's usually in an old flannel shirt and jeans, and I've never shot a deer with anything except a recurve bow and a longbow, and a lever action and a single shot rifle and I'm damm proud of it!! Ok, so maybe I don't take home as much meat as some do but I really don't care!!

[RMulhern]

Pete

You've hit on...what's a sore subject for me also! If you've seen one hunting video...you've seen them all! EVERYTHING is on sales of gadgets these days and ya never see any of these guys go to the field WITHOUT KILLING A BIG 'UN!! IMO...the worst thing to come along in the past 25 years is "screaming meamies" aka 3 wheelers and 4 wheelers! Back when folks had to walk...or either ride a bronc.....things were a lot better/nicer/quieter! Ride one of them damn wheelers onto a mountain and immediately every elk/deer within 5 miles knows where not to go!! And as for the "gadgets" used to sling an arrow...if they get a few more items stuck on 'em....they'll need another set of wheels to roll 'em around on!! Makes my arse wanna take a dip of snuff!!

[Kelley O. Roos]

Sharpsman,

What aa thought , your little pink arse cheeks dipping snuff, think what it would do to the ole bung hole ,now with a vision of that, I'll have a night mare Kind of like having a night mare of Butch U. in spandex, ice skating, holey moley guy's I'm shuddering now ..

Kelley O.

[Trigger Dr]

Years back, I let a "friend" hunt with me, with the understanding that he would not show any one the way in. The way we went in was short, but brushy, and went to a PRIME Mule deer area. The other way in was long, steep and exhausting. Few people tried to hunt this area due to the difficulty getting in there.
The trail was hard to follow if you did not know it was there, you would miss it.
The next year, the trail was easily seen, and the year after that it was a horse trail. One more year and there were jeep tracks. would you believe it, the tread pattern matched the tires on my "friends" jeep. The end result, erosion, hunting pressure moved the deer out early, and made a quality hunting experience into a walk in the woods to the sounds of 4 wheelers. Oh yes, it also ended a "friendship".

Jim Milner Trigger Dr

[ironramrod]

Gentlemen,

Couldn't agree with you more. When I was in the wildlife management field professionally, we saw it all. We could always tell what was on sale at Bass Pro or Cabelas, because there was always a certain percentage of schmoes that had all the on sale gadgets; also a surburban parked on a field approach with all the doors open and 2 four wheelers on a tilt trailer. But of course most of them couldn't shoot their way out of a wet paper sack; some of them didn't even know which end of the shotgun the BB's came out of. You should see them with a rifle in their hands; that was really impressive, we're talking shell the area. Three legs and a gut shot seemed to be the rule.

However, despite all the idiots with their gadgets and junk, we would occasionally run into a bird hunter with bib overalls, a single shot 12 ga. and a limit of every bird that was in open season; or the old sodbuster with a lever action Winchester, a dead doe with 1 hole in it and a big smile on his face. That always seemed to even out everything else we had seen.

Now if we had only seen some old Norweigan or Russian farmer dippin' snuff with his arse. Should be a sure-fire cure for hemorroids, huh. Maybe that's the reason so many of those ole timers carry their snuff box in their back overall pocket?

Regards

[Omaha Poke]

T Doc, don't feet like the Lone Stranger . Some years ago, I took my brother-in-law hunting to a place that few if any people knew about. The first morning we saw 4 deer before we even parked the 4x4 to get out and walk in. He was so excited he almost took out after them on foot!!!

I told him never to talk to anyone about this site. The next thing I knew, mutual friends were telling me about this great spot that my brother-in-law had told them about, and one of them even bagged a nice buck that I had scouted for over a year.

I don't tell anyone but my kids about where I hunt anymore. Randy

[pete]

Thanks guys. I might as well have fun with it. Sharpsman I know what you mean about the bow stuff. I'm not a bow hunter but these things are looking more like something that belongs on a Space Shuttle. The four wheelers I think are ok for handicapped hunters but you're right they are way over used. Here in Colorado we see alot of them.
It's funny too that they will use a gadget when none is necessary. Like having to use a blind instead of just sitting next to a tree or bush. It's just so they can advertise the blind.
A gadget they are lacking in is a knife so they can dress out the animal. After admiring their kill (Which is fine) they walk off back to where ever they are going and leave the animal to lay there with everything in. Maybe they could come up with a Debloater gadget.
I can hear it now. "If you're like us you like to leave the guts in your deer as long as you can so we recommend the new Debloater. It really works and leaves the meat good enough to give away."

[Hidehunter]

Gentlemen:

While I don't necessarily disagree with the idea behind what's been said, I do disagree (just a bit) with some of finer points.

From day one hunting has been about "technology." We humans don't have 4 legged locomotion or fangs/claws. I don't know anybody who can outrun a deer or antelope. Nor do I know anybody who is strong enough to bring down an elk or buffalo with their bare hands. Luckily, nature has endowed us with a brain. With it we are able to make and use tools, as well as work out strategies and schemes, which have put us at the top of the food chain. Without our hunting tools - be it a flint arrowhead or the latest .300 SuperUltraBlasterMag - we'd be vegetarians or scavengers.

I suppose the real question is where is the line that seperates "useful tool" from "gadget."

Imagine yourself as a hunter back in the 1870's (actually I do that quite often..) You show off a new '74 Sharps to your buddies around the campfire. Among the "ooh's" and "aah's" you might have heard a dissenting voice. "What do you need them newfangled cartridge things for anyway? Are you too slow (stupid, lazy etc.) to load your powder and bullet down the muzzle? Dan'l Boone, Davy Crockett, Lewis and Clark didn't any such sort of gadgets - now there were some REAL hunters." Fast forward a few years and the same things are said about repeating rifles and smokeless powder.

You can't judge a book by the cover. That grizzled old man toting a worn, sort of rusty .30-30 levergun might be a woods-wise veteran hunter with a deadly aim. Or he could be a duffer who likes to hang out with the boys at camp but hasn't got a deer since 1957. (Actually, there's a lot of those in my neck of the woods.)

[pete]

Hidehunter; You're right that hunying technology doesn't sit still. I don't have anything against smokeless cartridge guns and as I said in my first post nothing against rifle scopes. I use them too. There are two things that annoy me though one is general and one is specific.
The general issue is that we don't have to hunt for food like the old timers did. Sure I love the buffalo and venison and would miss it dearly if I couldn't have it and there will be a day when I can't. When that day comes though I won't starve to death because of it. That said when I watch these people and the technological lengths they go through just to kill a deer or something it's just amazing. I like watching these guys when on the odd show they don't hunt where they can just sit in their high tech tree stand over a genetically altered antler enhancement green field and they have to get out and actually hunt and stalk some thing for a change. Many times they have a hard time of it. Especially if they're using a bow. They rarely have a hard time in the stand. If I were a soldier in war I would want every advantage I could get and alot of these shows act like they're in a warfare situation.
The specific issue is with the muzzleloader. When these seasons were first developed they were intended for the ones that wanted the challenge and history associated with these guns. Now we have guns that are capable of amazing long range capability with their high tech bullets, scopes, powder pellets etc etc. The muzzleloader season was a season that was designed to be with a weapon that was frozen in time and it wasn't the 21st century. When I see somebody take an equivalent amount of credit with these new guns as somebody with and old time design I think it's wrong. I wouldn't allow them in the ml record book or at least not in the same category as the primitives.

[RMulhern]

Pete

That last post...is pretty well put IMO!! No....it has not sat still.....but what's next???.....zapper lasers?? Just put the crosshairs/laser light on the animal....no matter what the distance....and "fry" their ass!! If it's left up to the Departments of Conservation or Departments of Wildlife....it'll be fine with them because all they're interested in...in a lot of cases is the $$$$$$$!! Game management be damned! Not so in all cases but that's my opinion of the La. Wildlife and Fisheries and I'm not alone in my thinking concerning that issue! Maybe someone has this already...I know the military does...so it shouldn't be far behind in availability for "hunters"??? and that's the device that reads body temperature so these "hunters" can sit in their stands and see through a thicket!!

Yeah....man....whar kin I be a gittin me one of dem thangs??