45/70 Loads and Bullets

[largecaliberguy]

Could anyone tell me a load or loads using smokeless powder to use to duplicate the original velocities with a 500 gr bullet?
Also who makes a mold for an original 500 gr bullet design? What number and prices?

Thanks.

[ffffgdave@yahoo.com]

i had good luck with unique.. a friend mine also has good luck with unique. i use black now.. get a good loading book and read all the ins and outs of reloading for saftey reasons.. i believe original velocity is around 1200 fps.most books will have a load in that range with unique i believe but im not sure.. load what the gun likes, so you can varry the original load some to get accuracy... some original bullets should be found on the lyman websight. i think they were 405 grains aprox with flat nose. .. i would suggest 500 grains for low velocities..my opinion only and others like the 300 grain hp for hunting for a cantrast in views. ive seen alot of posts recomend the 457125 lyman 500 grain lyman mold and it is what i would buy if i needed a new 500 grain bullet mold for under 70 dollars.. good luck dave..

[powderburner]

if you want the origional load for smokeless I think spence wolfs book has it in the back.................Dean

[Ray Newman]

IIRC, the SAECO bullet # 881 is a copy of the M1881 gov’t. bullet.

It can be viewed @ @ the below link, but you’ll need Adobe to open it:

http://www.redding-reloading.com/PDF%20 ... ullets.pdf

The Lyman the #the 457125 (500 grn) also is a copy of the Gov’t bullet:

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/index.htm

Look @ the following links for $ & availability:

Midway:
www.midwayusa.com/

Grafs:
www.grafs.com/shopRegularproducts.cfm/startItem/1

Per the “Trapdoor Springfield; the United States Springfield Single-Shot Rifle--1865-1893”, Waite & Ernst, p. 168, velocity w/ the 500 grn. Gov’t.ball was 1315 FPS.

As far as White powder (Smokeless/Nitro) loads go, look in a good reloading manual. Some of these are available on-line.

Loading the larger BP case rounds w/ smaller amts. of White Powder can lead to some problems. It can be done though, & several of us here have done it, the Shooter just needs to exercise caution & common sense.

[EwingYoung]

Try 23g of 4759. I think this is about what is in the Wolf Trapdoor book. You might want to tilt the barrel up before shots or use a bit of cotton or T.P. to hold the powder against the primer. I had good luck without any wad. But that was long ago. Black powder is more fun and easier to clean the barrel.

[Matthew_Q]

+1 on the black powder.

With a good bullet and lube, cleaning is so easy. I ordered some bullets from Mt. Baldy Bullets, the Saeco 1880 mould, which produces a 500gr round nose bullet. Lubed with SPG, cleaning the barrel takes 2-3 patches.... one wet with alchohol and 2 dry, and it's pretty much clean!

[KHR]

LC Guy,
Paul Jones makes several variations of the classic gov bullet. http://www.pauljonesmoulds.com/45_caliber.htm His moulds are pricy but he could cut the mould to match your exact bore specs, and they cast excellent bullets. He even makes a copy of the 45/90 longrange trapdoor round.

keith

[dlemaster]

largecaliberguy
According to Wolf's book the 1881 500 grain bullet and 30 grains of IMR 3031 powder duplicates the 1898 Smokless load that Springfield developed for the trapdoor rifles.

Regards, Dave

[powderburner]

thanks diemaster I didnt have my book handy but I knew it was in there
...............Dean

[Kelley O. Roos]

KHR,

You said Paul Jones are pricy, it's called, value for your dollor, Steve Brooks moulds are in a Jones mould price range and the Victory moulds are even more. A Jones, Brooks mould will last a life time of casting, if one takes care of them, and I've cast a bunch of bullets with my Jones moulds, say in the neighborhood of 2500-3000 per year and that mould is 6 years old. In my book thats not pricy. I've bought the cheap production moulds and as far as I'm concerned they're junk, poor concentricty and so on.

What gets me is guy will spend $2,000 to $4,000 for a rifle and be cheap when it comes to buying a mould.

Kelley O.

[Josh A.]

Kelleys got it right. The fit of that mould to the bore is the most important thing to make a rifle shoot. Jones moulds are cheap compared to what you are getting.

J

[KHR]

Kelley O,
i agree with you. The PJ moulds are so supeior that I wish that I hadnot spent so much on the various lymans that I've bought over the years. I too expect to cast 2-3k bullets a year in each of the pj moulds I have recently received. I hope to post some results soon. In the long run these custom moulds are a better buy, besides they just work better! I think that they cast better due to 3 reasons. First the cavity is absolutely smooth. Secondly the sprue plate is much thicker. Finally the mould block is 50% larger than standard and this must help in keeping uniform heat.

k

[Matthew_Q]

I figure when I get into moulding, hopefully with some hands on instruction, I'll pony up for a good mould. Someone got it right, why spend mucho dinero on a rifle, but cheap out on the mould?

Given I got a Pedersoli, I may just pony up for that Victory Pedersoli-Gunn-Trenk mould, and see how my rifle likes it.

Ideally, I'd like to get in touch with someone that has a couple good moulds, or a company that moulds bullets, and get some bullets to try, and find what my rifle likes best.

[Jim Watson]

Well, Dick T is circulating several prototype Pedersoli molds for testing and comment. Looks like your opportunity. Get a pot and get in touch with him.

[Matthew_Q]

Jim, I'll remember that, I'm sure I saw his email address somewhere.

I don't have [i]any[/i] casting equipment yet, but may start aquiring stuff in the next month or two. I'll shoot Mr Trenk an email and see if he still has a mould available, and give it a try. I definitely like a 'try before you buy' type thing!