Casting checklist - First bullets cast! Pg 4 update

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:53 pm

Choken: it has been my experience as well that of numerous other casters who post here that Marvelux has a ‘nasty habit’ of attracting/ retaining moisture & will cause rust.

MQ: if your mould is hot enough, an 850 degree melt is more than enough to cast a good bullet.

Did you remember to drill out the ladle spout? (For those not in The Know, A larger spout pour hole will increase the melt flow & fill up the mould quicker as well as displace any trapped that may prevent a complete mould fill out.)

It takes practice & attention to detail to become a good caster.

A 5 degree wt. spread for a 1st time caster is, IMHO, very good & you’re on the right track,

CAVEAT I: IIRC, if a caster heats his melts above 950-975 degrees, the lead gives off toxic gasses.

CAVEAT II: you posted “almost forgot about the lovely young lady next door”. Remember as pfeist was advised “a pretty butt [stock] is just a distraction from other problems.”

Matthew_Q · Post by **Matthew_Q** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:21 pm

Choken: I used beeswax because I could obtain it locally. Picked up a 1lb block at a hobby store before I headed to the parent's house. I'll probably also use some for a lube mix, so why not?

Ray: I think my thermometer is not correct. I will probably see if I can get a laser/IR thermometer to doublecheck. I didn't drill out the ladle spout any, but I'm sure it will do a little better if it's a little larger. When I got to pouring a little quicker to fill the bases out and get sharp corners, it was only a couple seconds at most before I pulled the ladle away to make the sprue puddle. Seemed to work OK pouring quickly. You're right it takes practice to become a good caster. I'm sure I'll learn little things every time I cast, and I'll be able to get my bullets in a closer spread of weights. Thanks for the vote of confidence on the results!

As for guess on temperature... the only hint I had was that I was getting a goldish color on the surface of the melt... no fumes, except for when I fluxed, of course. Once I verify the temperature and figure out how much my Lyman thermometer is off, I'll be able to calibrate the control knob on the pot to get me close to the desired temperature.

And I still need to go talk to the young lady next door sometime soon... pfiest did get it right... a pretty butt [stock] IS a distraction... but it's a nice distraction!

Lee Stone · Post by **Lee Stone** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:28 pm

choken,

Some folk use marvelux quite successfully. I'm not one of those. I gave what I had away. If not used just right, and obviously I cannot explain what "just right" is, the marvelux can produce a lot of rusting of your pot and ladle and just in general be a significant pain in the ankle.

Lee Stone · Post by **Lee Stone** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:32 pm

Ray, I read a study done by the Army and you are correct, lead will vaporize at 900 degees, but it is 900 degrees C, which is equivalent of 1652 F. My Waage wont go up to 1652 F that I know of.

Timberlake · Post by **Timberlake** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:10 pm

Marvelux seems to be a product that is both saint and sinner in the same sentence. I've used it for over 30 years and can't say I have any problems with it. We're talking about my original, 4lb container of the stuff.

As with any good product, one needs to know how to use it. One thing that comes to mind is that old adage of "less is more". Use it more as you would salt from a salt shaker. Another thing, don't put your melt working utensils in a melt unless you have preheated them. To do otherwise is asking for major trouble regardless of your fluxing materials.

TL

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:46 pm

MQ: try boiling water to a very violent/hot boil& stick the thermometer stem in it. Observed the temp. IIRC water boils @ ’bout 210 degrees?

Drill out the spout--you’ll get a much quicker & stronger flow. Learned this the hard many yrs. ago.

I cast a 545 Jones Creedmoor @ ‘bout 850 degrees & have no problem w/ it filling out. On a good day & if I’m concentrating, I can run the bullets to a max of +/- one grain. So you should do OK w/ the mould that you have. As I said, you’re on the right track.

It has been my experience that I should not cast if I’m tired, p*ssed off, rushed, etc. My casting suffers as a result. I also found that if things are not going well during a casting, session, it is better fro me shut things off & walk away.

For many yrs, I didn’t cull my bullets & fired those that were not ‘match quality’ as sighters, fouling shots, etc. Now I just return the flawed bullets to the melt. Why use a substandard bullet for a sighter? As for fouling shots, again why use a substandard bullet as you may need that round later on if one fails to fire, drops in the dirt, etc.

Have you made a mould oven yet? See ‘mould oven’ @:

http://groups.msn.com/BPCR/general.msnw ... 0098626592

Lee:, et al: I just checked & lead (Pb to you High School Grad-u-ates amongst us) boils at 1749 degrees C. To convert that to Fahrenheit, 9/5+ 32. Now when I did this, I came up w/ 1003 degrees F. Did saturn mislead me?

Did I do it right?

Kelley O. Roos · Post by **Kelley O. Roos** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:59 pm

Ray,

It's not a good idea to use substandard bullets as sighters, fouling the bore OK, not sighters. When sighting in you want to be centered to the best of your ability and if a bullet is off in some way it could very well cost a point or target and that maybe the difference between first and second. Use match loads for a match.

Kelley O.

powderburner · Post by **powderburner** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:13 pm

M.Q.
when I get my outside pots going to make ingots out of all kinds of mixtures I occasionally get the lead real hot and blue it or as you say turn it golden bluish I would guess it is close to 1000 degrees because it is actually burning ,ie oxidizing , I melt WW at this temp and stay upwind of the pot it seems to clean them up a bit more and maybe make the other stuff in them float a bit more to skim . I have tested ingots from the colored pots and the brinnel hardness is a bit less than cooler poured WW ingots . Dont know if it is an age thing or what but they test softer .this is of course a wild ass guess as to temp but I am thinking Im pretty close.....Also get you a cheap clock and put it down by the pot where you have to look at it and use the second hand to cast with your bullets will come out even more consistant. I use this with my two cavity victory mould and have gotten the varience down to 1.3 gn using both cavities and the cavity varience between cavities is .3 Im real happy using the clock...............Dean

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:09 pm

Kelley: you're right.

Back in my 'salad days’ I had to learn a lot the hard way.

Matthew_Q · Post by **Matthew_Q** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:56 pm

Using substandard bullets for fouling shots, ok... but for sighters, I figured that wouldn't be a good idea. You need your sighters to fly just like your match loads. So any substandard bullets will get culled and melted, or used for fouling shots.

I did pick up a burner from WalMart, and an outlet box, I just need to cut it. I couldn't find an oven thermometer to rig up in it, but as I mentioned, I'll probably try to pick up a laser/IR thermometer and just check the surface temperature on the mould. I'll also be able to check the surface temperature of the melt.

Thanks for the comments... I got where I am, and will progress in great part thanks to the help I have received here from you guys. It's greatly appreciated. I'm soaking everything up, and hopefully the application of the knowledge will help perfect my casting. Also, I hope others getting into this can come to this discussion and learn from it.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:24 pm

Lee is right, lead does off-gas @ 1652 F

http://www.eskimo.com/~jet/javascript/convert.html

Bumper · Post by **Bumper** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:26 pm

Choken, Like other casters I've found that using Marvelux caused/helped increase oxidation on other metal pots. The Waage pot has some type of high temp coating that resists oxidation so using Marvelux may be a non issue when using a Waage pot. When adjusting the Waage pot temp with the small screw that sits inside the stem make only a small adjustment, wait 5min, check with a good thermometer, and adjust again if neccessary. Rbump

Matthew_Q · Post by **Matthew_Q** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:00 am

Bump, good idea. One should adjust and wait to measure.

I tried my thermometer in a pot of rapidly boiling water, and it only showed 200, or just a hair over. But water should boil around 212-220°. I think it could be off by as much as 10%. Figuring that it was showing me 840°, it could have actually been as high as 940° or so! I'll need to verify it with something better calibrated, for sure.

Lee Stone · Post by **Lee Stone** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:44 am

Matthew,

Bill Ferguson sells a very good casting thermometer:

http://www.theantimonyman.com/

I use it and a Lyman. As long as they both agree, I figure I'm at least in the ball park.

I've got one of those infrared spot reading 1000*F Sears thermometers, and I cannot get it to read above 450 or so degrees F. Can't figure out what I'm doing wrong and the instructions are of no help.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:21 am

Lee is right 'bout the thermometer.

The"Tel Tru" thermometer can be recalibrated & very well made. Far superior to those marketed by lyman/RCBS….