Crappy casting today

[Matthew_Q]

I started up a casting session today, and it ended up being pretty crappy, so I'm looking for some input as to why.

Recently got some 30:1 lead from Buffalo Arms (had used up about 20lb of their 20:1 already with good results) for casting using my 457125 mould. Heated up about 18lb of lead to 800° and fluxed with a pretty good chunk of beeswax. I let the mould heat up for a few minutes on my hot plate before I started casting.

The first couple bullets came out looking OK, but were still sticking in the mould. This happened before, so I wasn't too concerned with it. After the first couple bullets, they started coming out looking rough. There was a lot of 'wavy' texture in the nose portion, and the lube grooves and bands were rough.

I tried letting the mould cool more, dropping the melt temp to 750° and then down to 725°, but still no improvement. I tried pouring the melt slower. All to no avail, so I quit casting. After the mould cooled down, it looks like there is some sort of residue on the flats where the halves mate up, so I think I need to give the mould a good cleaning. The cavity looks clean, though, so I'm not sure what the problem is.

Anyone have any ideas or input?

[Ray Newman]

Matthew Q: definitely clean the mooulod, inc. the cavities.

The only time I experienced what you describe was when either my mould &/or the melt weren't hot enough.


If you are dipping, do you return the ladle to the melt after pouring? If not, the laddle could be cooling off.

[ole pizen slinger]

Sounds to me like the mold is not hot enough.

ole pizen slinger

[Ted Kramer]

MQ,
I've found that smoking the cavities with the flame from a wooden match after about every 15-20 bullets, or as needed, helps big time. Bullets will drop out much easier and seem to be smoother, for me anyway, your mileage may vary.
Ted K

[BuckeyeShooter]

If your getting wrinkles in you bullet it's a result of what everyone else has said and that's a cold mould. I cast at 820 deg. and I only preheat on the shelf of my Waage pot while the melt is coming to temp. I usually will throw out about the first 20 bullets. It will seem sometimes that there will be some that look pretty good in that bunch but the next one will come out looking like crap. If I can get three good ones in a row then I start to keep them. This will give me 100-150 bullets that will weigh within .5 grains of one another with a couple that will fall within 1 grain. Go to Paul Jones web site if you haven't already and read his casting instructions. This will help you with any mould your using. As far as bullets sticking, I've come to the conclusion that it more a factor of the mould your using and especially the number and depth of the grease grooves than anything else in the way bullets release. I have a Lyman (I usually hate Lyman moulds) that releases bullets more consistently than even my Paul Jones will. It's a 425 grain 50 cal that has only 3 grease grooves and it will release a bullet almost every time without any coaxing.

[Smokin]

Matthew_Q,

Make sure your mould is hound's tooth clean, particularly if you oil it for storage. Use liberal applications of brake cleaner to remove all oil. If any residue remains, you can judiciously burn it off with a propane torch, but do not hold the flame on any one place too long - you can warp the blocks if you heat them too quickly or unevenly. This process will also somewhat preheat the mould. Look very carefully at the blocks, maybe even with a magnifying glass to make sure the faces of the blocks are clean and all the vent lines are unclogged, if not scrub them with a brass brush on a drill or Dremel or a bronze gun cleaning brush. ( I have cleaned mine with a machinist's scriber, but can't advocate that for someone who is not willing to scrap a good mould, if the hand gets twitchy or over-zealous.

Smoking can help to cast a good bullet. As Ted suggested, take a wooden kitchen match and hold the tip of the flame in the cavity, applying as even a coat of soot as you can to the mould cavity. You will have also sooted the faces of the blocks - this you need to scrub off with a bronze gun cleaning brush. Run the brush perpendicularly to the vent lines to get most of the soot off and then parallel to the lines to clean the vents. Leave the soot in the cavity. It seems to act as an insulator and gives the molten alloy a chance to get into every little nook and cranny before it starts to freeze - at least that's the theory. It's completely innocuous, so if it doesn't give you a better bullet - the same little bronze brush will make it all go away. But I think you will like what it does for you.

[Matthew_Q]

Thanks for the feedback gentlemen!

Ray, yeah, I put the dipper back in the melt. I actually put it in when the ingots start melting so that it gets up to temp with the melt.

I haven't cleaned the mould since I've had it, but I think I will be doing so soon. It looks like some wax residue from the flux or something. I have an old toothbrush and some nylon and bronze cleaning brushes, so I'll get it cleaned up.

I can't tell how hot the mould was getting, but I did get about 35 bullets cast, so it should have gotten close to the temperature it was at in my previous casting sessions.

Hopefully it's just in need of a little cleaning and a little better temperature control. I might be able to get a session in next weekend or the weekend after. I'd like to get some bullets cast, as the first weekend of next month, we're having a get together at a range facility, and I will have access to a 1000yd range. We'll probably do some shooting from 200, 400, 600, 800 and 1000. I'd like to get at least a few rounds out at each range, just to see what she can do!

[El Paso Pete]

Paul Jones has a tip that works for me. After you cut the sprue, give the handle joint a good rap with your wooden mallet. They fall out easily then.

It sound to me like your mould is not hot enough. A good indication is the height of the puddle on top. If it is high it's tool cold. I get my best results if it thins out and takes a few seconds to solidify in the sprue hole.

We all have bad hair days, couple of weeks ago I could not make a good bullet all night. Gave up, and the next night I couldn't make a bad one if I tried.

[Matthew_Q]

I think it is entirely possible that the mould was too cold, and I did not give it a good enough warmup time on the burner.

(the circuit in the garage kept breaking due to the heavy load, but I found another socket that is on a different circuit, so I plugged the hotplate into it. I'll give it 10-20 minutes on the medium setting of my hotplate to warm up.)

So, on my next session, I will allow the mould to heat up while the lead is melting. I'll also clean the mould before I cast, and will bring some wooden matches with me to see if that trick helps, too. Thanks for the suggestions, guys! I learn something every time I come here!

[wolfy]

Talk about bad hair days...I just posted something about an experience that I had a couple of winters ago when I borowed a Leeth double cavity mould that cast a dead ringer for the Jones Creedmoor on another website. Long story, shorter, is that over a twoandahalf day casting session I cast 60 pounds of 30:1 primo non wrinkled, non frosted,...........
sixty THAT'S SIXTY, FOULKS!, pounds of bullets that looked flawless. Then I started weighing and the TRUTH reared it's very ugly head. Wouldna trusted a one o' them dudes 'cus I didn't know where the flaws were! They're still layin' there in a pile in my casting room. It was a combination of too short a spout on a too small capacity ladle and a very high socket screw on the sprue plate. Tried to bottom pour from my trusty Lee BP, but I kind o' knew that wouldn't work either. Wasn't the fault of the mould.....beautiful bullets! Mebbe I could sell them for charms in some jewelry store or mall kiosk around next Christmas.

[EwingYoung]

Every so often I will start a casting session and nothing goes right. I just hang it up. A day or two later I will try again and everything is great.

[Kelley O. Roos]

I never have a bad day casting. Of course I don't use any of the methods I've seen discribed here.

Kelley O.

[RMulhern]

I think some of you guys need to come to the RMSC! For $100.00 per hour...I'll teach ya HOW NOT to have a BAD HAIR DAY casting bullets!!

[Gunny]

Some of these comments are very interesting, yes very interesting indeed. I personally learned how to cast these big old bullets we shoot from one of the custom mould makers himself. I had tried Lyman and Saeco moulds and always seemed to have some trouble with sticking bullets, but mostly what I found from Lyman moulds was that they are not round. As a matter of fact the modern day Lyman moulds are not very good moulds at all "I have found". I started using moulds from Steve Brooks and later Paul Jones, learned how to cast the right way, and have never looked back. With good casting technque there is no need to smoke a mould or to have to beat the bullets out of the thing. Mould release is for the outside of the mould and there is no need for any of the black arts to learn how to cast a really good bullet. Temp also is very important and once I actually learned how to cast found out that a temp of 725 to 750 is all anyone really needs to cast an excellent bullet, and more heat than that actually causes a lot more problems than it helps, but I like most folks had to learn this the hard way. In casting these big ole bullets time and experiance will always be the best teacher.

Gunny

[Omak Cowboy]

Gunny!

Welcome back! You have too long been absent from our company.

E mail me on my AOL line as I've got a funny bit to share with you.
Omak
at
Breakness@AOL.com