Howdy, all. I've been reading a lot at this site and others and thought it's about time I say thanks to all of you for sharing you collective knowledge regarding the 1863 Sharps.
I owned a Farmingdale .54 SRC 1863 back in 1981. I never got to shoot it because it was destroyed in a fire. I just recently purchased a Pedersoli, unfired, that the original owner bought in 1999. I know from reading that the discussion of non-Shiloh rifles is tolerated here and I appreciate that. If I stick with this 'hobby' for a while I intend to purchase a Shiloh or two. Anyhow, I hope to be shooting my 1863 within a week or so and will most likely be talking with you all about that as time goes on. Thanks again for sharing.
New To Me 1863
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mtnwinds
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:05 pm
Pedersoli 1863 Gas Check Removal
I've read most of the posts regarding the removal of the gas check plate but haven't come across any description that matches what mine looks like. The gas check plate has no slots that can be used for prying it out of the breech block. It must be removable and I'm hoping someone here may have a suggestion. I don't want to fire the rifle until I'm sure I can clean all of the recesses.
The chamber has a sliding stainless steel sleeve that I can move in and out about 1 1/2" with my little finger. It stops after about 1 1/2" is exposed in the breech area but I think it will move further out. I just can't do it with my finger.
I bought one of those small steam cleaners because someone recommended it as a great tool for speeding up the clean-up chores after a day at the range. Makes sense to me.
If this isn't clear, I can post a picture. Thanks.
The chamber has a sliding stainless steel sleeve that I can move in and out about 1 1/2" with my little finger. It stops after about 1 1/2" is exposed in the breech area but I think it will move further out. I just can't do it with my finger.
I bought one of those small steam cleaners because someone recommended it as a great tool for speeding up the clean-up chores after a day at the range. Makes sense to me.
If this isn't clear, I can post a picture. Thanks.
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mtnwinds
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:05 pm
There are two screws on either side of the breech block. One is used to retain the finger lever and the other, I'm guessing, is used to retain the gas check plate. It must simply limit the motion of the plate or be a type of safety retainer. However, removing it does not make it any easier to pry the gas plate out of the breech block.
Doesn't appear that I'll get any response here. Hope what I've posted helps someone.
Doesn't appear that I'll get any response here. Hope what I've posted helps someone.
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Kirk
- Moderator
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dicktrenk@aol.com He should be able to help you , I'm not sure how they do it.
Kirk
Kirk
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mtnwinds
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:05 pm
I received a reply from Mr. Trenk, a copy of which follows:
You have not described the problem in enough detail. The gas check is a loose piece fitted into the breach block. If it appears stuck, then the block can be soaked in various solvents and penetrant chemicals to dissolve the material causing the stick.
It is permitted to pry against the plate using stong force but not to break or bend.
Sometimes application of heat to the gas check by using a torch is useful. You could heat it up to very high temp. below dull red color if necessary.
Your problem is simple sticky parts caused by some neglect or product used as a protectorant, which turned into a glue like material over time.
You also need our tool USA 500 which is used to wiggle the floating chamber and keep it free to slide back and forth.
The chamber is not removable but must be loose so as to make a gas seal.
Regular washing out and re oiling is needed to keep the chamber and gas check free to work properly.
If you will write to info@davidepedersoli.com you can request a gas check shim at no cost.
Supply the serial number of your gun.
The shims are selected to be installed behind the block and between the block and gas check to minimize block and check clearance in the frame. Use enough shims so there is felt drag when raising and lowering the block. The minimized clearance will greatly reduce fouling which gums up the check and chamber movement.
For DP & Co.
Dick Trenk
I haven't seen this anywhere else so perhaps it will help. I'll let you know when I get my gas check plate removed.
You have not described the problem in enough detail. The gas check is a loose piece fitted into the breach block. If it appears stuck, then the block can be soaked in various solvents and penetrant chemicals to dissolve the material causing the stick.
It is permitted to pry against the plate using stong force but not to break or bend.
Sometimes application of heat to the gas check by using a torch is useful. You could heat it up to very high temp. below dull red color if necessary.
Your problem is simple sticky parts caused by some neglect or product used as a protectorant, which turned into a glue like material over time.
You also need our tool USA 500 which is used to wiggle the floating chamber and keep it free to slide back and forth.
The chamber is not removable but must be loose so as to make a gas seal.
Regular washing out and re oiling is needed to keep the chamber and gas check free to work properly.
If you will write to info@davidepedersoli.com you can request a gas check shim at no cost.
Supply the serial number of your gun.
The shims are selected to be installed behind the block and between the block and gas check to minimize block and check clearance in the frame. Use enough shims so there is felt drag when raising and lowering the block. The minimized clearance will greatly reduce fouling which gums up the check and chamber movement.
For DP & Co.
Dick Trenk
I haven't seen this anywhere else so perhaps it will help. I'll let you know when I get my gas check plate removed.
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mtnwinds
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:05 pm
This shows the tools I used to get the gas check plate separated from the breech block. I was able to begin the process using an inexpensive Marples wood chisel and plastic hammer. A quick touch up and the chisel will be as good as new. I can't think of any tool that would do the job better than that chisel. (Fellow woodworkers, I've done more damage to that chisel working on hickory!)
This shows the slow but steady process.
Almost done. At this point, I had begun tapping the chisel into each of the side joints. Notice there is no deformation of the metal.
Separation.......finally. I'd been soaking the breech block in Kroil for 3 days before beginning this project.
It took less than a week for Pedersoli to send the stainless washers. They are about .008" thick
I'll get around to cleaning the block up tomorrow. The sliding sleeve in the chamber is easily moved to the rear of the receiver with finger pressure. I should be shooting her on Sunday.
This shows the slow but steady process.
Almost done. At this point, I had begun tapping the chisel into each of the side joints. Notice there is no deformation of the metal.
Separation.......finally. I'd been soaking the breech block in Kroil for 3 days before beginning this project.
It took less than a week for Pedersoli to send the stainless washers. They are about .008" thick
I'll get around to cleaning the block up tomorrow. The sliding sleeve in the chamber is easily moved to the rear of the receiver with finger pressure. I should be shooting her on Sunday.
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mtnwinds
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:05 pm
Is the gas check plate boss tapered?
In case someone is interested, I'm going to post the measurements of the gas check plate and the corresponding recess in the breech block. I'm beginning to suspect that this subject may have been discussed to death because of the lack of response. If so, I apologize.
The boss, or circular projection on the gas check plate is .158" tall and .860" diameter. The corresponding recess in the breech block is .194" deep and .860+" diameter. I can't seat the gas check plate completely flush with the breech block using finger pressure. The last .060" will require some force; tapping with a plastic mallet, etc.
Possibly, the recess might be tapered or perhaps the recess is not tapered at all but the plate is kept from seating because of interference between the bottom of the plate and its corresponding ledge on the bottom of the breech block.
So, my question to you experienced '63 officiandos is: should the gas check plate seat completely with finger pressure
The boss, or circular projection on the gas check plate is .158" tall and .860" diameter. The corresponding recess in the breech block is .194" deep and .860+" diameter. I can't seat the gas check plate completely flush with the breech block using finger pressure. The last .060" will require some force; tapping with a plastic mallet, etc.
Possibly, the recess might be tapered or perhaps the recess is not tapered at all but the plate is kept from seating because of interference between the bottom of the plate and its corresponding ledge on the bottom of the breech block.
So, my question to you experienced '63 officiandos is: should the gas check plate seat completely with finger pressure
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Todd Birch
- Posts: 2133
- Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:01 pm
- Location: Somewhere in the Cariboo ....
Gas Plate Question
mtnwinds
I have a pal who posts on this site who owns a ped '63. Goes by the handle 'Hvymtl'. Drop him a line and he can help your with your problem.
The stainless washers sound like a good way to compensate for any wear between the face of the gas plate and the breech of the barrel. Is that their purpose?
The Ped utilizes the 'sliding sleeve' device for a gas seal which historically was reputed to be no more successful that what Shiloh builds today. Most fused in place pretty quick under field use conditions.
While you have the plate out, it might be an idea to make a couple of notches on it at the centre of the flash hole. Then you can hold the block in a padded vise and gently pry it out with a couple of small screw drivers.
It's a good idea to smear a little 'anti-seize' compound on the parts before assembly. A snug 'press fit' is all that is necessary.
Regards, Todd
I have a pal who posts on this site who owns a ped '63. Goes by the handle 'Hvymtl'. Drop him a line and he can help your with your problem.
The stainless washers sound like a good way to compensate for any wear between the face of the gas plate and the breech of the barrel. Is that their purpose?
The Ped utilizes the 'sliding sleeve' device for a gas seal which historically was reputed to be no more successful that what Shiloh builds today. Most fused in place pretty quick under field use conditions.
While you have the plate out, it might be an idea to make a couple of notches on it at the centre of the flash hole. Then you can hold the block in a padded vise and gently pry it out with a couple of small screw drivers.
It's a good idea to smear a little 'anti-seize' compound on the parts before assembly. A snug 'press fit' is all that is necessary.
Regards, Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
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mtnwinds
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:05 pm
Well, I've been to the range and am very impressed with the DP 1863. I made up a jig to form paper cartridges from curler paper. Bottom is folded over and glued w/glue stick. 1 curler paper makes 2 cartridges. The load is 60 grains 1 1/2 Swiss with a veg. fiber ovr. pwdr. wad. The wad helps keep the powder column straight when I twist the end closed. Bullet is the BA .542 x 475 gr ringtail.
I drop the bullet in, follow with a paper cartridge which fills the chamber exactly full, and close the breech. 1" at 100 yds. What more can I say?
I drop the bullet in, follow with a paper cartridge which fills the chamber exactly full, and close the breech. 1" at 100 yds. What more can I say?
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Todd Birch
- Posts: 2133
- Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:01 pm
- Location: Somewhere in the Cariboo ....
handsome is as handsome does .....
Mtnwinds
Well done! Great results.
I take it that the end of the cartridge with the wad is what gets twisted.
Any trouble with ignition at the other end?
How did the cleaning process go?
I'm rolling with an onion skin paper and I glue a paper towel square at one end by inserting it with a dowel. I just insert the 'Christmas Tree' .54 at the other end, which is a snug fit. The lube bonds the tube to the bullet.
I just got a Lee .54 Minie mould and it mikes at .544. I'm hoping that it will make for a good bullet. I'll lube both the grooves and put lube in the base cavity. That means a wad to prevent powder contamination.
If it bumps up as well as .58 Minies in my P-H Enfields, I'm onto a good thing.
Todd
Well done! Great results.
I take it that the end of the cartridge with the wad is what gets twisted.
Any trouble with ignition at the other end?
How did the cleaning process go?
I'm rolling with an onion skin paper and I glue a paper towel square at one end by inserting it with a dowel. I just insert the 'Christmas Tree' .54 at the other end, which is a snug fit. The lube bonds the tube to the bullet.
I just got a Lee .54 Minie mould and it mikes at .544. I'm hoping that it will make for a good bullet. I'll lube both the grooves and put lube in the base cavity. That means a wad to prevent powder contamination.
If it bumps up as well as .58 Minies in my P-H Enfields, I'm onto a good thing.
Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
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mtnwinds
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:05 pm
Todd, the wad is at the twisted end. I've haven't had a misfire yet. I'm using Remington musket caps. They burn right through the glued end of the paper cartridge.
Clean up is a snap now that I know how to remove the gas check plate. I haven't detected any leading but I also don't have any idea what my mv is. I really enjoy this rifle. Shooting offhand is a lot of fun. I have 6 washers from DP that fit between the plate & block. They make the plate stand about .004" proud from the block and help give a very snug seal. The sliding cylinder is easily moved and I don't expect any problems from it as long as I keep it clean.
I have enough room to put the bullet on top of the wad and glue or tie it there; just haven't been so inclined yet.
I've got a tang sight I'm going to mount one of these days. I've also got my eye on a 3 band military. I just like its looks and now that I know these rifles will shoot the attraction is even stronger.
I've been wondering about a 54 Minie and would like to hear how yours works out.
Clean up is a snap now that I know how to remove the gas check plate. I haven't detected any leading but I also don't have any idea what my mv is. I really enjoy this rifle. Shooting offhand is a lot of fun. I have 6 washers from DP that fit between the plate & block. They make the plate stand about .004" proud from the block and help give a very snug seal. The sliding cylinder is easily moved and I don't expect any problems from it as long as I keep it clean.
I have enough room to put the bullet on top of the wad and glue or tie it there; just haven't been so inclined yet.
I've got a tang sight I'm going to mount one of these days. I've also got my eye on a 3 band military. I just like its looks and now that I know these rifles will shoot the attraction is even stronger.
I've been wondering about a 54 Minie and would like to hear how yours works out.