40-65 brass

Capt Henry · Post by **Capt Henry** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:10 pm

I am curious to know what the advantage of resizing 45-70 to 40-65 rather than just buying the brass already made up such as Starline.
I am using Starline now and after fireforming I do not see any advantage over the reformed 45-70, of course I have been accused of being blind to the obvious before.

LJBass · Post by **LJBass** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:25 am

Capt Henry,
My Browning seems to have a fairly tight chamber. Using reformed Winchester brass lets me get 3 or 4 more grains of powder under the bullet. In my rifle it makes a difference. In some it might not. It's one of those things you can experiment with. Your rifle will tell you what it likes.
LJ

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:42 am

LJBass is correct. Win has the thinnest brass of the lot & will hold more powder.

Rickd · Post by **Rickd** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:10 am

You can also buy Winchester brass already resized to 40-65 from Buffalo Arms. Buffalo arms generally recommends Remington brass for people calling in with Shilohs .. They say Shiloh chambers are too small. Not correct. There apparently have been some problems with RCBS dies not fully resizing 45-70 brass all the way down to the rim. Threefore, sometimes Win brass resized with RCBS dies 'won't chamber'. It's an infrequent die problem .. not an incompatability of Win brass. Steve Brooks, Kirk, and many others use and recommend Win brass for it's extra case capacity. I ordered 100 Win brass already resized from Buffalo Arms to play with while my rifle is built, and then 500 more. The case above the rim of that rezied Win brass measures the same as the 50 Starline cases I bought earlier. Just a hair over .500 thousandths Good shootin!

arnie · Post by **arnie** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:57 pm

Another trouble with the Starline brass is that it is very short compared to most 40/65 chambers and some have been running into very hard Starline Brass that has needed to be anealed before it could even be sized .Arnie

Capt Henry · Post by **Capt Henry** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:41 pm

guess I will have to give it a try, I am loading for a Browning BPCR in 40-65. and have not had any problem with the chamber being tight or to small. I normally leave the slight flare on the mouth of the case when loading. altho I have yet to get a load with the accuracy I think the rifle is capible of. I am using Goex now as no one in the area carries Swiss which I am told gives better results. I will plug the reformed brass in on the next run and see if it makes any difference.
thanks for the input

Rickd · Post by **Rickd** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:54 am

Capt. That rifle should be a very accurate one. I have yet to load Black Powder as I'm waiting for my Shiloh to be built. However from what I've read on this very informative Forum, both Goex and Swiss are capable of comparable accuracy, but they are two very distinct powders insofar as the way loads are developed with each. Swiss reportedly does not require compression, and most shooters report excellent results with .10 or less compression.

Goex on the other hand REQUIRES significant compression in order for it to burn cleanly and give good results. Kirk (from Shiloh) told me that he loads his Winchester brass with Goex for his 40-65 .. with .350 compression (that's 350 thousandths or .350 inch. He said the result he gets is a very accurate cartridge, and a very clean burn. By compressing that much the powder on the top of the powder column is 'crushed' slightly, changing the powder from FF to FFF or something finer, with the result that it's similar to shooting a duplex load. The last powder to ignite is the 'hottest' and helps to more completely burn, resulting in less fouling.

RDNK, who tests powder for Goex, will tell you that you've got to make sure you've got enough powder in the case. You can't 'download' and get accuracy.

So if you're starting with a good bullet (360- 420 grain) that is either the same diameter as the groove diameter as your barrel, or maximum one thousandth larger (Shiloh recommends you use a bullet the same diameter as your groove diameter); you are using a proper black powder lube (SPG, Black Magic, or Shiloh's lube); cases expanded to put no more than 2 thousandths of neck tension on the bullet; powder properly compressed for it's type (Swiss or Goex); AND you are using a blow tube to moisten the fouling in the barrel between shots .... then that rifle you are shooting with the Badger barrel should be giving you MOA groups at 100 yards.

Good shootin!

Capt Henry · Post by **Capt Henry** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:39 pm

Rickd
Thanks for the input, I am not giving up on the Browning as I like the rifle. Interestingly I have a 45-70 Shiloh #1 and the first 10 rounds I loaded for the gun with a 500 g bullet and Goex shot under 2 inches with one flyer,( the first round). But I have not had that success with the 40-65 but I aint a givin up.

Omaha Poke · Post by **Omaha Poke** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 8:30 pm

Capt Henry, I have a Ballard #4 Perfection in .40-65 that I got just last year. I was lucky to have a friend who had several moulds for this cal. and he loaned them to me. They were the Lyman postel type, semi-spitzer, and a flat point hunting bullet. They all shot fairly well, but when I got my 420 gr Creedmoore Paul Jones mould, I was able to shoot well within the circles of the other bullet moulds. So to speak. Each rifle has a bullet or two that it seems to like and that shoots extremely well. Try to find people locally that might either make bullets for you or loan you their moulds. ( I would rather loan just about anything than my moulds, because most people don't know how to take care of them).

Try to find one that works not just good but gives excellent results in your rifle, and then have one made. An over the counter mould may work ok or even great for you, but I will guaranty that a Jones mould, Hoch, or Brooks will work even better, and they are worth the price. YOu wont have to keep buying moulds to try and find one that makes quality bullets. Hope this helps, Randy