The reloading process

[Omaha Poke]

Deer, why don't you come out and say what kind of shooting Clarence did, and what powder you were using, etc. It doesn't do any of the rest of us any good when someone doesn't complete the information, or just hints at it. Randy

[Gunny]

Guys,

I have been for some time a big proponent of no neck tension, no compression with swiss powder. Recently Ihave been playing around with both some neck tension and some compression with Swiss powder. Both systems work there is no doubt about it. However there are some rules that almost must be followed for the no neck tension and a slip fit bullet to work. That rules is that if you use "No Neck Tension" the bullet needs to be seated out of the case far enough to engage the rifleing a good amount. I use .050 at least and that is the bullet engageing the rifleing .050. Now when you do this you will need to be very carefull with your blow tube use, if the fouling is not soft the next round will be very hard to chamber and may not chamber at all if the fouling is too hard. But with good blow tube technque this is no problem. The purpose of seating the bullet hard into the rifleing when using "No Neck Tension" is to provide enough resistance to build pressure and provide a complete powder burn. With out this engagement fouling will be out of control.

Mike T mentions that blow tubing is not a perfect solutuion, it may not be but it is damn close. If the blow tube is used correctly there is no need to wipe between shots, and if wiping between shots is not done with great consistancy it is much worse than bad blow tuibing technque.

Poke yopur idea and practice of running the slip fit bullet and loaded case back into the sizing die a small amount to provide some amount of tension to hold the bullet in the case, is not a good idea in my expermenting. This practice will not provide "IN MY OPINION" a uniform loaded round. The one thing we must have is consitancy from round to round. I have seen many who used this method to hold there bullets in the case I have yet to find ANY of these shooters have consistant ammo.

There also is a poster here on the net who says that folks advocating a slip fit bullet and no neck tension, are lieing about this practice just to keep there fellow shooters all WADDED UP. I don't have a clue what that means "All Wadded Up" But I am here to tell you that there is more than one way to load ammo. A slip fit bullet and no sizing of the case does work and works very well. But for the shooters using neck tension and maybe looking for something a little better, and I am not saying that a slip[ fit bullet is better, maybe you could give this a try. It works not only for the shooters of today but was used to great success over a hundred years ago.

Gunny

[Omaha Poke]

Gunny, I didn't say that I ran the bullet back into the sizing die, I believe that was someone else. I did however say that I run the completed cartridge (in some instances) into the crimp die just enough to make sure the case wall is straight with no bell.

This is possibly a minor difference. I seat the bullet that I am talking about, to engrave the front driving band a few thousandths. It is a bore ride bullet, so the front section does fit nice a snug into the lands.

I am experimenting with all kinds of loading techniques with this particular bullet, and have had excellent results with a few so far. Some weren't worth talking about on this or any other forum other than to let people know that they didn't work.

Today, I even tried three loads that had a slight crimp, and they were also loaded with Swiss 2FG that was compressed .20" and got very good accuracy at 200 yds.

The guy who claims that slip fit bullets aren't accurate and that people saying that they do this to mislead people is just plain and simply full of sh--.!! The last match I shot at Machias, WA three of us were comparing loadings, and each of us pulled the bullet from our loads easily with just thumb and fore (trigger) finger.

Gunny or should I call you Snake when are you going to post something on the Mexia shoot Randy

[powderburner]

I have to go along with Gunny on this as I have tried both ways with my 45-110 and no neck tension has worked the best this is not to say that it is better just that it works best for me . I also use goex and not swiss and I compress about .75 in and get a real clean burn and with 5 breaths I am good to go and have done it over 50 rounds and the rifleing is still clean and two patches clean it right up and each new ctg drops right in . I have experimented with different bullets with the same charge and the only difference I find is a different point of impact from the differern bullets they all group almost the same but hit on different places on the target but mostly within 8 inches of each other .I think that consistancy in loading is way more important than the load or the compression or the bullet or anything else and that you can fine tune each gun individually but if the load is consistant the accuracy will be there . Albiet within reason one thing I have found is that 1F is more forgiving than is 2F and again that is only in my rifle

[Clarence]

All,

I was shooting a 535 Gunn Modified bullet cut by Fred Leeth in front of 64 gr. of Swiss 1.5Fg, 0.030" veggie wad, Fed 215, 0.040-0.050" compression, seated to engage the lands of my Ballard .45-70 by ~0.005". That load in that rifle is probably the most consistently accurate BPCR combination I've ever owned, and I'm disappointed when 10 shot groups exceed 1.5 MOA at 300 yds (I know I'm the problem when that happens). No excuses for missing turkeys or rams, but I managed to miss one turkey and 2 rams by getting sloppy. I shot a 31-4 chickens, 10 pigs, 9 turkeys, and 8 rams.

Randy,

I agree that a Roller will shoot with your technique-I just have a personal preference to not need to push on the block that hard when I'm seating a cartridge.

I'm generally in agreement with Gunny. I'd rather neck size and expand for 0.002" grip and very consistent neck tension than push hard on a Roller block or slap the lever on a Sharps (I've done both quite often) to seat a bullet hard into the lands. All my seating dies can be adjusted to eliminate enough of the bell so that it doesn't drag when chambered, so I don't need to use a sizer or crimp die to do that job.

I agree that there are lots of ways to get good results with these rifles. I'm all for anything that works for someone as long as they are happy. I do think that there are some techniques that are more likely to work with a variety of rifles than others.

Incidentally, the Ballard load was the first one I tried, based on my experience with other rifles, and the identical load shoots very well in a Lone Star Roller that happens to have a throat just enough longer so that the cartridge chambers effortlessly. The same basic load, adjusted for a slightly longer throat, shot pretty well in a Sharps I sold a friend, but we found that rifle shot even better with the bullets at least 0.020" into the lands. We increased the powder to maintain the same compression.

Based on experiences of others, I plan to try more compression with Swiss if I ever get a chance, but I need to admit to basic laziness-I like the fact that I don't need to use a separate compression step.

[Omaha Poke]

Clarence, I don't have to push on the block hard at all What I do have to do, is hold back the hammer so that the rim of the ctg will easily slide by. There is no pushing or difficult to chamber ctg's. Randy